YOU PROBABLY KNOW the favored Seed Savers Trade catalog, which this yr options 600 kinds of seed to select from and helps the beloved nonprofit preservation group by the identical title that in 2025 is popping 50 years outdated.
However possibly you haven’t clicked round in Seed Savers’ on-line seed swap that’s merely referred to as The Trade, the place homegrown open-pollinated seed for greater than 14,000 distinctive varieties is obtainable this yr. A few of it from Seed Savers’ personal huge assortment, and others from lots of of particular person gardeners all around the nation and past. It’s the last word seed rabbit gap for eager gardeners to discover, after which some.
Josie Flatgard, Trade and Outreach Coordinator for Seed Savers Trade, primarily based in Decorah, Iowa, informed me about their preservation work, and the way The Trade matches into the mission—and the way we gardeners can be a part of within the effort and in addition entry some heirloom seeds with compelling tales to inform.
Learn alongside as you take heed to the Feb. 10, 2025 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant under. You possibly can subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
heirloom seeds from the change, with josie flatgard
Audio PlayerObtain file | Play in new window |
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts
Margaret Roach: It’s good to speak to you once more. I liked attending to know you the previous couple of months after we collaborated on a “New York Occasions” backyard column about The Trade at Seed Savers. And earlier than we get into The Trade, the form of on-line seed swap perform itself, are you able to form of give us an total mission of Seed Savers Trade? It’s 50 years outdated; it’s superb. I feel lots of people understand it as a seed catalog and a few might not know form of the larger story. I imply, they understand it’s about preservation, however what’s the mission?
Josie Flatgard: Sure. Seed Savers’ mission is absolutely to steward America’s culturally various and endangered backyard and meals crop legacy that now we have amassed for generations right here, as immigrants got here and introduced seeds with them and grew them yr after yr. We’re devoted to preserving these seeds and the tales that go together with them. So right here in Decorah, we do have a seed financial institution, with greater than 20,000 kinds of seeds which were donated to us through the years, and we protect them in a freezer, but in addition by rising them out right here on the farm and by sharing them via The Trade. And that’s a giant a part of the Seed Savers’ mission nonetheless.
Margaret: I didn’t understand till we did the time story collectively that it’s the most important non-government seed financial institution within the nation. The USDA has collections, preserved collections, of seeds, however Seed Savers is the most important non-governmental one, I imagine.
Josie: Sure. And we’re actually devoted to holding the seeds protected and viable, in order that after we are in a position to develop them out right here, they’re prepared. And we examine germination charges in order that once they’re distributed via The Trade, we all know that they’ll develop for gardeners.
Margaret: Proper. And also you spoke about this effort for preservation and to maintain range alive as a lot as doable. I imply, there’s been an amazing… Within the fashionable period, I learn a statistic that between 1900 and 2000—I feel it was from the Meals and Agriculture Group of the U.N.—that it was estimated that as a lot as 75 p.c of the world’s edible plant varieties have been misplaced. So meals crops particularly with the arrival of hybrids, the period of hybrids, after which extra not too long ago with genetically modified organisms, these crops—it’s like these heirlooms, these open-pollinated heirlooms with tales to inform such because the 20,000 which are in your seed financial institution, there wasn’t possibly large cash to be made in them, so the seed firms dropped them and so forth. I’m oversimplifying, however I feel that’s form of quite a lot of what occurred.
Josie: We see nice range inside our assortment and thru The Trade, and a few of these tomatoes won’t have been nice vacationers. They is perhaps somewhat extra susceptible to getting a bruise right here or there. So heirlooms are particular, they usually would possibly commerce one attribute for an additional. They may have actually nice taste. And when Seed Savers Trade began in 1975, the tales and the flavour traits and all that makes them distinctive actually drew within the co-founders, Kent and Diane Ott Whealy, to actually take into consideration these household heirlooms that that they had of their care, the ‘German Pink’ tomato [above] and the ‘Grandpa Ott’s’ morning glory. [both in photo at top of page]. And so they noticed them as being actually distinctive and possibly they weren’t supplied in any catalog that they may see, however they have been actually captivated with saving these seed yr after yr as a result of they have been related to their household, but in addition related to this better thought of preserving range. And that’s once they began asking different folks about their household heirlooms, and getting of us on board with the mission to save lots of these various crops.
Margaret: So in 1975, it began very small. And it began with form of the germ of what’s now The Trade a part of Seed Savers Trade, which we’re going to speak about for a lot of the remainder of our dialog. It began as a seed swap, form of, sure? That was the roots of it.
Josie: Yeah, that’s proper. Yeah. That they had despatched out a name to gardeners and requested them to share in regards to the varieties that that they had and in addition ask in the event that they have been on the lookout for any varieties that they couldn’t discover wherever else. And this culminated in a six-page typewritten doc [laughter], and there have been 29 individuals who responded. And that is actually how The Trade started, and was the beginning of Seed Savers Trade and actually continues to be on the core of what we do. And it’s grown since then. This yr now we have greater than 300 listers, we name them, individuals who provide seeds on The Trade, and it’s now not a typewritten doc. We’ve a web site, after all, and it’s remodeled through the years, however we’re nonetheless actually enthusiastic about holding that connection piece and preserving biodiversity inside our backyards.
Margaret: So a few of these listers have been doing it a very long time, and a few of them, that is their first yr. Is it a combined group that method? And the way do they discover out about it, or how do they get entangled? Do you recruit listers, individuals who develop open-pollinated seed that they need to share? I imply, how does it work logistically?
Josie: Yeah, it’s a various group of oldsters. We’ve some gardeners who’ve been saving seed and sharing it via The Trade for greater than 40 years, so almost all of the entirety of the group’s time. And so they have been devoted to itemizing seeds yearly. And there are of us who’ve been doing it for 10 or so years, and not too long ago gotten concerned, and people of us who’ve simply realized in regards to the change, whether or not it’s via the “New York Occasions” article or via numerous occasions that we host.
We companion quite a bit with organizations to host seed swaps in particular person. And that could be a actually beneficial exercise for us to take part in. That is actually on the coronary heart of what we do, and connecting with folks in particular person about their seeds and about how they grew for them of their specific area is so beneficial. So we discover new listers and new members in numerous methods, after all, via social media, too, however via our numerous academic occasions, too, that Seed Savers holds all year long. And quite a lot of these are digital.
Margaret: I imply, the numbers are form of staggering. And I keep in mind after we began engaged on the time story, and I form of began clicking round, it’s actually not 29 folks in a six-page printed itemizing anymore [laughter]. I feel it was over 14,000 distinctive choices. And we must always say, this isn’t a catalog. It’s not like a catalog the place you order all the things in a single place. It’s a one-on-one, and also you’re not shopping for the seed, precisely. You pay for the mailing value, the transport value from every lister. Proper?
Josie: Proper.
Margaret: Yeah. So that you may need 5 of these relationships when you wished 5 various things from 5 completely different folks, no matter. So it’s somewhat completely different from the Seed Savers Trade catalog or one other seed catalog in that sense logistically.
However I imply, I don’t know, I can’t even keep in mind, was it like 6,000 sorts of tomatoes and 1,600 possibly sorts of beans? Was it? And one man I keep in mind (as a result of you’ll be able to have a look at the profiles of the completely different listers) one man, Russell Crow I imagine his title was, had 342 sorts of beans he was providing. I suppose he likes beans. He’s a passionate collector and preserver of beans and the germplasm, the genetics, of beans. And I imply, it’s simply staggering simply to learn via his record alone inside it.
Josie: It’s undoubtedly a website you may get misplaced in for hours, trying on the completely different plant varieties and all of the varieties which are supplied via one plant sort alone, such as you talked about, the tomatoes. And people share somewhat bit about themselves of their profile, they usually do take requests in numerous methods. So some of us are nonetheless doing snail-mail requests and taking money and checks via that method, however other people are all on-line they usually’re taking completely different on-line fee choices and taking a request via the web site. So there’s that performance, however now we have a various group, and so it’s necessary to have a look at every lister’s profile if even only for their order directions, but in addition to see what their pursuits are.
Margaret: Sort of their passions. Proper, proper. And the opposite factor that’s attention-grabbing is you’ve not too long ago redone the web site, I imagine. I don’t know when it relaunched, how outdated is the brand new model of the web site?
Josie: We launched final Could.
Margaret: And so now we are able to do issues much more than earlier than. I imagine like sure crops, like tomatoes you simply talked about, we have been simply speaking about tomatoes for a second. I need each to make it possible for they ripen in time, or like winter squash, as an illustration. With these, I need ones which are acclimated to my Northern rising season, each the size of it and in addition the varieties of environmental pressures that I’ve right here. I may need a damp summer time and sure illnesses, some pests and pathogens is perhaps extra rampant right here than in sure different areas. I don’t desire a Southern-bred, tomato, in all probability.
I might want one which’s extra Northern-acclimated since seeds are alive and adaptive. And so the opposite cool factor is I may look via within the listings for a specific tomato and see if anybody within the Northeast the place I stay had the genetics—was providing that model of that seed. As a result of I all the time say a ‘Brandywine’ is just not a ‘Brandywine’ is just not a ‘Brandywine.’ I imply, despite the fact that they’re one tomato, and all of them are going to yield roughly the identical seed, there are genetic variations in every inhabitants of that crop, relying on the place it was grown and the way it was grown and the pressures it was underneath over many generations, which I simply discover the very best a part of all, probably the most miraculous, awe-inspiring a part of all [laughter].
Josie: Sure. Yeah, that’s proper. You possibly can search by state and search a number of states and areas to see what crops are extra acclimated to your area, and which is perhaps extra drought-tolerant or tolerant to moist situations, relying on the place you reside. And it’s also possible to, the attractive a part of it’s you can join with the one that grew that tomato in that area and ask them, how did it actually do? And the way lengthy have you ever been rising it there? And yeah, that’s a wonderful connection.
Margaret: So we are able to form of filter our outcomes that method, and filter for decent peppers versus candy peppers or pink tomatoes versus yellow tomatoes or no matter. All these sorts of cool issues.
However so talking of specifics, possibly we must always discuss some particular crops. I imply, one may additionally simply spend the remainder of their life studying via the descriptions of all of those unimaginable varieties and the tales, their tales. And also you alluded to this at first, tales of how did these varieties get right here? A lot of them are from growers in america. How did they get right here? And a few of them have simply very emotional tales, about escaping a Nazi-occupied wherever or simply histories of post-World Warfare I refugees. And somebody introduced it in, sewn into the folds of their garment, introduced the seed from the homeland to the brand new homeland. And these tales are stunning.
Josie: And so they actually differ. And yeah, there’s actually wealthy histories that you might discover within the descriptions. And likewise, I ought to acknowledge that a few of these varieties that even Seed Savers gives, we don’t have an outline or any historical past for, so we’re nonetheless engaged on that historical past. We’ve a few seed historians right here within the preservation division who do this work, that actually necessary work, monitoring down who grew it and the way did it come to be right here at our website in Decorah. And yeah, they actually differ by seed.
It may very well be that somebody like this ‘Artwork the Barber’ pepper [above], which was donated not too long ago to Seed Savers: This member of the family walked into his eye physician’s workplace and had simply this bag of peppers with him, and that was up for grabs up for the folks. And this particular person introduced it house and it reminded them of their current journey to Jamaica. We don’t have an entire lot of the remainder of the story, however now we have that stewardship historical past from that easy change in a watch physician’s workplace. It may be simply from person-to-person, that stewardship historical past. It may very well be that it’s supplied on The Trade for a number of a long time, after which we name that an heirloom, an Trade heirloom. However yeah, it simply actually relies upon. And a few of us decide up a seedpod on their trip and produce it again with them. It actually varies.
Margaret: And it may be a strategy to discover our private histories or our ancestral histories as effectively. I keep in mind there’s a narrative, I feel it would’ve been a squash from the Soviet period, and a girl in Ohio, I imagine, who was of Slavic ancestry. She realized about it and was in a position to get some seed of it. And she or he’s been rising it for 30 years herself. And she or he shared it with you, with The Trade.
And so in a method, it was a connection to her ancestors’ homeland. Have you learnt what I imply? We may store that method. We may look that method via the descriptions of issues that had related roots, so to talk, to us. And there’s so some ways to go. Moreover that pepper, another that you just need to share; are there any favorites that you’ve or do you’ve any specific obsessions? I confess I’m obsessive about beans and winter squash [laughter].
Josie: Sure, these are good obsessions to have. I’m simply form of fascinated about backyard planning. And I’m a newbie gardener myself, so I’m entranced by the varieties that we get to attempt right here on the farm throughout analysis style checks. And so I’ve gotten to style this actually nice lima bean. It’s obtained an attention-grabbing title. It’s Calico Wild Horse, after which in parentheses, it’s Colorado, so it’s underneath a special naming conference. It may very well be shortened possibly. I had by no means tasted a lima that was so flavorful, and I solely knew limas as being these inexperienced form of virtually slimy beans that got here in a medley of beans. And this can be a stunning bean that’s mottled with form of a darkish maroon colour and has a white base, they usually’re simply actually tasty and have a clean, creamy texture. And that’s a shocking factor for me-
Margaret: Proper. So that you thought lima meant one factor solely. You had a visible picture of lima like many people would, of a pale inexperienced, large-ish bean that’s of a specific texture and so forth. However this was fairly completely different. This was calico. This was marked with the maroon and white. Attention-grabbing.
Josie: Yeah. So there are such a lot of completely different distinctive varieties like that on The Trade the place you’ll be able to see one thing that both you’ve had this concept in your thoughts about the way it tastes, however it’s somewhat completely different. Or simply is perhaps somewhat higher than the norm, and particularly what you would possibly discover at your native grocery retailer more often than not.
Margaret: Proper, proper. I imply, among the many tomatoes, it’s simply, like I stated, it’s overwhelming. There’s so lots of them [laughter]. There’s one you informed me about ‘Peg of My Coronary heart’ [above, with Peg Davis]. Sure. Do you do not forget that one?
Josie: Sure, after all. I do not forget that one very effectively. Yeah. That’s additionally a reasonably new accession in our assortment right here at Heritage Farm. However this specific number of tomato has been grown by Peg Davis, who lives in Virginia and sells at market these stunning tomatoes that she’s been stewarding for greater than 50 years now. And she or he obtained these seeds from a pupil in her class that she was instructing, and the scholar got here to her and informed her, “Nobody in my household is rising these. Do you need to develop them?”
And so she was in a position to keep on that custom, and has been choosing for various traits, in response to the amount of seeds and simply the fullness of the tomato over these 5 a long time. And she or he sells over 3,000 kilos of them each season apparently, at this market. And we grew it out right here a few years in the past, and it’s actually a tasty tomato, and deserves the 50 years of stewardship and for extra of us to learn about this tomato as a result of she has been stewarding it. And it’s a very good one.
Margaret: ‘Peg of My Coronary heart.’ And I wished to simply form of double again to somewhat little bit of the mission and the strategy. Right here now we have all these folks swapping, exchanging seeds, and so one particular person like Peg, her tomatoes at the moment are being grown in a number of locations. And that concept of redundancy, isn’t that what The Trade fosters most of all? And might you inform us somewhat bit about how necessary that’s, why that’s form of a part of the deal?
Josie: Yeah, yeah. That’s the perfect cycle: that you just request a range from somebody, and also you get a packet, and also you develop it out that yr, and also you save the seed, and you then’re in a position to share it with gardeners the next yr.
Actually with every seed that’s shared, exchanged, members are creating extra resilient communities. They’re feeling somewhat extra empowered to take motion, to check out rising this selection that possibly they really feel a connection to. And so they’re engaged on these seeds that may turn into regionally tailored in their very own backyards, after which provide these saved seed via The Trade the next yr to proceed the cycle.
So if I’ve a crop failure and also you’re rising the identical selection, or I do know you requested it from me up to now, then I can attain out to you and obtain seed in order that the custom can proceed. And we’ve seen that occur, the place households have reached out to us after they’ve donated seed they usually’ve had a crop failure, or one thing else has occurred to the seed that they’ve misplaced the gathering that they’ve. And we’re in a position to safeguard these varieties in rising them out in several areas by completely different stewards.
Margaret: So not simply within the seed financial institution there with the 20,000 varieties at Seed Savers Trade, however in every of our particular person outposts is a possible for extra examples of resilience and extra sources of these genetics, these distinctive genetics. So I don’t know, I simply adore it. It simply makes me get goosebumps. So I’m simply so glad to speak to you at present, and I actually respect your making time. I do know it’s a busy time within the seed world, all people ordering and issues happening and occasions happening. I do know you simply had large Nationwide Seed Swap Day and plenty and plenty of stuff taking place. So Jesse, it’s actually all the time good to speak to you, and thanks a lot.
desire the podcast model of the present?
MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its fifteenth yr in March 2024. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Feb. 10, 2025 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You possibly can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
with Garden Answer! 
