MARGARET RENKL’S latest e book, “The Weedy Backyard: A Completely happy Habitat for Wild Pals,” is geared toward kids, nevertheless it’s actually for everybody, she says. And certainly, we grownups, too, typically want a reminder that our gardens usually are not simply “our” gardens, however important habitats for our wild neighbors.
How we handle these areas determines whether or not bees and butterflies and frogs and fireflies and turtles and birds and all people else on the market thrives or not.
Margaret visited the podcast to speak in regards to the new e book and the message for people of all ages that guides her strategy to gardening.
Like many readers, I received to know Margaret Renkl in 2019 upon the publication of her e book, “Late Migrations.” Since 2017, she’s been contributing a preferred “Opinion” column to “The New York Instances,” and he or she additionally revealed “The Consolation of Crows: a Yard Yr” in 2023, and now the brand new kids’s e book. She lives and gardens with an ecological focus in Nashville.
Plus: Remark within the field close to the underside of the web page for an opportunity to win a replica of “The Weedy Backyard” (affiliate hyperlink).
Learn alongside as you hearken to the March 2, 2026 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
‘the weedy backyard,’ with margaret renkl
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Margaret Roach: Hiya, Margaret R. of the South, as I name you; my alter ego.
Margaret Renkl: Hiya, Margaret R. of the North, as I name you. I imply, what are the chances? However it’s simply the silliest, however I’m certain you’ve had this expertise, too: So typically I’ve gotten e mail meant for you.
Margaret Roach: I do know, it’s humorous, proper? Simply earlier than we begin speaking in regards to the e book, as a gardener who’s been by way of quite a few extreme climate occasions in my time, everyone knows about Nashville having had horrible, horrible ice and the whole lot not so way back, and all these timber; the photographs of all of the broken timber. And I’m assuming your backyard was stricken as nicely, and throughout you.
Margaret Renkl: Properly, it’s a bit early to say how the precise backyard did. We depart the leaves the place they fall, so it’s pretty nicely tucked in. However the greatest pollinator backyard in my yard is constructed round a snag that we left standing at when a maple tree died in a storm, so it is vitally uncovered. However we did lose not entire timber, I don’t suppose. We’re ready for the arborist to return truly tomorrow to inform us if we are able to save our pine timber. However we misplaced so many limbs. I can’t even describe it, Margaret. The timber are… no tree was left untouched. We lay in mattress that night time and listened to limbs crack.
Margaret Roach: It’s like shotguns. I’ve been there at nighttime and also you’re simply shaking in your mattress, and it’s like shotgun blasts. Somebody’s simply capturing somebody time and again.
Margaret Renkl: After which it hits the bottom and the ice breaks and it seems like glass shattering and also you simply suppose you’ve come to the tip of the world.
Margaret Roach: Sure. Properly, I simply wrote a Instances column about woodpeckers, and that’s what I’ve been engaged on lately. And the woodpeckers are blissful when there’s a change [laughter], and when there’s injury, they prefer to make the most of it. So perhaps the woodpeckers, extra woodpeckers, will transfer in and say, “Ooh, have a look at this. There’s a gap on this tree the place their department was once and I’m going to do one thing about it.” So who is aware of? I like to attempt to be optimistic.
Margaret Renkl: Properly, we’ve got plenty of woodpeckers and actually, proper earlier than the storm hit, there’s a pileated that comes and goes. Now we have an previous pear tree that’s not a Callery pear however an actual pear tree, and it’s very previous and really broken and that woodpecker loves it.
Margaret Roach: So the brand new e book, “The Weedy Backyard,” as I stated within the introduction, it’s a kids’s e book, technically talking. I received quite a bit out of it, although. So the brand new e book is totally different out of your others. Moreover being a kids’s e book, it’s additionally an image e book created in partnership together with your artist brother, Billy Renkl. So why a child’s e book? And what about that? The place did that come from?
Margaret Renkl: Properly, in some methods I’m, I feel I’m coming full circle. As a toddler, I cherished books a lot and in these days, or not less than in my household, you simply waited to let the college train the kid to learn. And so I at all times felt I used to be on the mercy of the adults in my life to learn to me, and so they by no means have been obtainable to learn so long as I wished to be learn to.
And so from the very starting, even earlier than I might learn or write myself, I believed this could be my life, studying and writing the books I used to be fascinated about then. And again in these days, within the early sixties, there weren’t a complete lot of… There simply wasn’t plenty of media for younger kids, and never so many image books. However my father would learn fairy tales and poems, and I simply at all times thought… Proper up by way of highschool, I wrote my senior time period paper on “The Wind within the Willows” and “Charlotte’s Net,” animals, in middle-grade books.
And after I packed for faculty, I packed an enormous carton of youngsters’s books and that was going to be what I realized to do, was the right way to write kids’s books. And plenty of issues; life occurs, individuals occur. And I wandered away from the central mission. After which Billy [below] stated to me, my brother, who’s a yr youthful than I’m, “Properly, might you write an image e book? I actually need to do the paintings for an image e book.”
Margaret Renkl: In some methods I simply got here again to what I had at all times been.
Margaret Roach: That’s attention-grabbing. Regardless that it’s known as “The Weedy Backyard,” it’s not a e book with the textual content and the illustrations about weeds, like knotweed and kudzu and no matter. It’s not about eradication of issues. It’s extra about form of issues that give life to different types of life. And so what’s a weed within the context and the message of “The Weedy Backyard”? What’s a weed?
Margaret Renkl: Properly, I feel you form of hit it. We’re not making an attempt to speak about pulling weeds, though I do pull weeds, and I do know you pull weeds, but-
Margaret Roach: Just some, Margaret [laughter].
Margaret Renkl: If you’re speaking about creeping Charlie otherwise you’re speaking about henbit otherwise you’re speaking about chickweed or any of the opposite invasive vegetation that find yourself in our gardens, you’re speaking about what I agree is a weed. However then whenever you’re speaking about wildflowers, typically they’re thought-about by different kinds of gardeners additionally to be weeds. So there’s butterweed and there’s ironweed and there’s milkweed, and there are all these vegetation that truly have the phrase “weed” of their identify, of their widespread identify, as a result of our ancestors thought-about them to be unwelcome of their gardens-
Margaret Roach: Or not less than wild if not—I imply, they have been for the wild locations, proper?
Margaret Renkl: Proper. However I plant them and punctiliously transfer them, in the event that they get planted by the birds or the chipmunks or the squirrels, elsewhere. As a result of when you’re gardening with wildlife in thoughts, then it’s a must to, as you already know so nicely and have written about so superbly and so persuasively, so many occasions we’ve got to plant the vegetation they want.
And clearly some vegetation are better-behaved than different vegetation, and also you most likely don’t need widespread milkweed proper in your perennial border. But when you’ll find a spot the place widespread milkweed is in the correct circumstances and has room to run, you then’re going to have a complete lot extra monarch butterflies, as a result of these leaves are mammoth in comparison with butterfly weed or in comparison with swamp milkweed, the opposite two varieties, and honey vine milkweed that I’ve in my yard.
Margaret Roach: And it truly is true for those who plant it, they’ll come. It actually does work. It’s a system of associated organisms who’ve co-evolved and know each other, their ancestors knew each other. I imply, I’m anthropomorphizing or no matter, however you already know what I imply.
Margaret Renkl: I don’t truly suppose you might be anthropomorphizing. I feel we made a mistake someplace alongside the best way after we stopped pondering of the pure world and pure techniques as dwelling beings. They do have particular person personalities. Some squirrels are undoubtedly quite a bit bolder than others. And so their people and their little life cycles are simply as vital to them as ours are to us.
You see that whenever you welcome them. You get to be in… You get to be a wild factor your self in a method, since you see your self as a part of this ecosystem when you will get shut. And Billy likes to say when he was engaged on the illustrations for this e book, that he was cautious with every unfold to attempt to provide you with totally different views, to be wanting on the backyard from, with the concept little children are sometimes simply squatting and searching proper at eye-level to a zinnia.
Margaret Roach: Sure, sure. No, completely true. And the best way that the e book, it’s form of an enormous e book whenever you open it up, it’s a two-page unfold; every form of illustration is a two-page unfold. And beneath them, stretching throughout the underside of the 2 pages is a line of prose. I don’t know, perhaps it’s poetry. I’m not likely certain what you’ll say you’re writing [laughter]. And it begins with an “When you’re…” and it’s one of many creatures.
I really like the one, “When you’re a bumblebee within the weedy backyard, you carry grains of pollen from blossom to blossom. You’re a seed maker dusted with magic. You’re a flower farmer wearing gold.”
So there’s this image of a bumblebee and fascinating with a flower and all these items occurring within the illustration. However there’s additionally this, “for those who’re this creature, that is what’s occurring for you.” And this connection, this expression of connection, I assume. And I simply cherished you have got the toad, the speckled toad, who’s there form of crouching and hidden from the bugs, ready quietly with out transferring and all of those creatures. And I assume that you simply’ve had the privilege of discovering all of them due to your relationship with your personal backyard.
Margaret Renkl: Oh, for certain. Not simply my backyard, however going again to childhood. We don’t have any toads in our yard anymore; I haven’t seen a toad on this yard in most likely 20 years. My neighbors use an excessive amount of pesticides. And there’s by no means been any form of chemical on this yard, however half an acre will not be sufficient to maintain an amphibian ecosystem. So a few of these are recollections greater than they’re direct observations.
However I’m glad you seen the little line on the backside of every web page, as a result of the one factor I knew beginning out: Billy wasn’t asking for me to jot down an image e book about any specific topic. I simply thought, I identical to writing in regards to the pure world. And I believed secretly—I’m confessing right here, Margaret—that if the grownups aren’t listening to us, perhaps we must always deputize a whole nation of second-graders and allow them to free on their mother and father to form of clarify why you might want to hold that exact flower and put the spray bottle away.
However with the restricted quantity of textual content, partly that was simply because I feel you don’t have to fret a lot in regards to the vocabulary degree of the kid being learn to when you have got a read-aloud e book, like an image e book. However it may possibly’t be too many phrases otherwise you lose the littlest ones. And so it form of fortunately coincided that I wished to jot down an image e book for my brother, however that I additionally wished to go away the canvas as massive as I might for him. And that necessitated limiting the variety of phrases.
So the precise story is barely 200 phrases, after which there’s one other 300 phrases of again matter, nevertheless it’s actually for the adults who’re studying the books to the kids. However for me, it was simply I wished to offer Billy as a lot room to unfold out as I presumably might. He’s a passionate gardener and he has maintained—I feel we’ve even talked about this in previous conversations—a very elaborate backyard journal. And so I used to be actually wanting ahead to seeing what he might do with an enormous canvas.
However so far as the language itself, I used to be stymied for fairly a while. It is a exhausting kind to jot down in, and I’ve already written the second on this sequence, and it was not any simpler writing the second than it was the primary time [laughter]. It’s exhausting when each phrase has to rely and you may’t danger boring your viewers for even… You’ll be able to’t say, “O.Ok., nicely, my viewers goes to hold in with me right here and so they belief me. They’ll know I’m going to return round to the purpose.”
No, that’s not true for a 4-year-old. So I needed to be actually cognizant of creating each phrase rely. However then I had this dialog with the nice kids’s author, Kate DiCamillo, and I stated, “I don’t know if I might do that.” And she or he stated, “Consider it as a poem with web page turns.” And that basically did simply unlock it for me.
Margaret Roach: Yeah, that’s attention-grabbing. That’s a very good description of a kids’s image e book like this then. Sure, “a poem with web page turns.” Good. And once more, every unfold depicts one creature, and there’s a inexperienced snake, I feel, and there’s a turtle I feel, and the bumblebee I discussed, and I neglect, there’s the toad I discussed and plenty of totally different animals.
And also you’re form of zeroing in on how they relate to some side of the place, nevertheless it’s not the best way that we people—and also you have been speaking earlier than about how children are on eye degree with a few of the issues—and their perspective, these small creatures’, is totally different. Once more, they’ve their very own method of seeing it and proportionally, their proportional relationship to it is vitally totally different.
And a few are rustling round within the leaves, as you have been saying, that you simply’ve left on the backyard flooring, and a few are buzzing about above. And it’s all these totally different views. And I feel plenty of occasions we get obsessive about, “Oh, nicely, that mattress doesn’t look colourful this month.” Or, “Oh, this isn’t fairly sufficient” or no matter, and we neglect there’s one million different issues occurring if we might simply stand nonetheless and look carefully.
Margaret Renkl: And likewise the factor about kids is that they don’t have any worth hooked up, of any good or dangerous, to something. They’re simply curious. They don’t know they’re presupposed to be afraid of the garter snake. They don’t know that the bee may sting them. They’re simply interested by all of it.
And that’s one factor that does make writing for youngsters particularly rewarding, is that they’ll go along with you, I feel. I imply, I’m about to search out out, however I feel they’ll go along with me as a result of that’s simply the place they already are. Individuals after I’m on e book tour with a e book that, particularly a e book that the pure world options largely in, typically ask me, “Did you train your kids this stuff?” And I’ve to chuckle as a result of in so some ways they taught me.
Like all kids, I used to be very fascinated about wild issues after I was little proper as much as most likely center faculty, after which it was extra schoolwork and buddies. However when my children have been little, they introduced me proper again to these days of squatting and watching an anthill, or following a bumblebee to see the place it goes subsequent.
Margaret Roach: Properly, and there’s a lot that we miss. I imply, I’ve been in the identical place roughly 40 years, backyard seasons or no matter. And I feel it was late final winter, I used to be outdoors doing one thing with a pal. We have been doing a little chore or no matter, and I regarded down and I believed: That’s transferring. There’s this massive strip of grayish-blackish stuff, nevertheless it’s undulating, it’s transferring, and it’s actually lengthy. It’s all alongside the bottom of a wall, and what within the heck? And it turned out to be thousands and thousands [laughter] of little arthropods of some form, and I needed to go search for who they have been, and have you learnt what I imply? It’s identical to, despite the fact that I’d been right here one million occasions, I’d by no means seen no matter. I can’t even bear in mind what it was [it was snow fleas, or springtails]. That’s how foolish I’m.
Or the primary time I went out at night time and regarded for moths, put up a light-weight and regarded for moths and located all these different creatures of the night time right here. I’d been right here all these years and I didn’t even know in regards to the night time shift who lived right here. So most of the creatures don’t even come out in the course of the day. We don’t even see them. Proper?
Margaret Renkl: And don’t you discover, too, that the extra you see, the extra you see? The extra you’re open to seeing one thing. As a result of it’s true: You’ll be able to’t step into the identical river twice. You undoubtedly can’t step into the identical backyard twice. As a result of I bear in mind one time this big, big grasshopper confirmed up in my flower beds and I had by no means seen something prefer it. And I went and regarded it up, an obscure fowl grasshopper simply flew in after which later flew out once more and hung round for 2 or three days after which it was gone. And I’d by no means seen such a creature earlier than, and I haven’t seen one since.
Margaret Roach: And so the message then of the e book is you’re making an attempt to catch the eye, in fact, of the little ones who’re having this learn to them or who’re paging by way of it, but in addition of the particular person studying, sure? The particular person studying to them: the father or mother, the older sibling, the grandparent-
Margaret Renkl: The instructor.
Margaret Roach: The instructor, proper. And the overriding message then is—as a result of once more, every unfold begins with “In case you are a…” after which names a creature, a goldfinch, or once more a turtle or whomever, the overriding message is what, do you suppose?
Margaret Renkl: I feel it’s that we belong collectively. We belong to 1 one other. That is the best way all of it works, and we’re a part of it, too. And I feel kids perceive that instinctively, however I feel most adults have forgotten, and so they consider the nice bugs and the dangerous bugs, or they consider the issues which might be fairly or cute or the issues which might be ferocious and predatory. They usually don’t notice that the actually fairly, cute bluebird is simply as ferocious on grasshoppers as any form of hawk is towards bluebirds, or owl. I do steer fairly away from predation on this weedy backyard as a result of I don’t actually need to get too disturbing, nevertheless it’s-
Margaret Roach: It’s not a homicide thriller, proper? [Laughter.]
Margaret Renkl: No. However simply the concept for those who concentrate, you’re going to search out actually superb, miraculous issues. And for those who aren’t interfering with that course of or these processes by interrupting them in a roundabout way, both chemically or by hand, you then’ll be privileged to see entire cycles play out.
And that there’s a purpose for why the toad holds very nonetheless in these leaves and appears, in actual fact quite a bit like a mottled leaf, as a result of if he’s going to get that fly he can’t let the fly know he’s there. Lots of it’s nearly not in any form of 2-by-4 throughout the top form of method, however only a mild celebration of the best way the whole lot is interconnected.
After which I discussed the again matter. It is a fairly customary factor as of late to incorporate in a e book that has info of any form in it. It’s just a bit bit extra element for the grownup studying, explaining the connection between native vegetation and native bugs, and natives and native birds, and native birds and native mammals and reptiles and amphibians. And as with all picture-book author, I consider I did immerse myself fairly deeply into the world of image books for a few yr and a half earlier than I attempted to begin writing.
Margaret Roach: Oh, attention-grabbing.
Margaret Renkl: All of them appear to have this. There’s a lot greater than you may say within the size of an image e book, however there are many assets for anyone who desires to know extra.
Margaret Roach: I wished to ask you, you have got one other e book already within the works that’s going to be following this one, one other image e book of the identical form?
Margaret Renkl: Sure. It’s popping out subsequent yr, in the direction of the tip of summer season. Billy’s making the artworks for it proper now. It’s known as “The Leafy Blanket.” And I determine many of those similar creatures from “The Weedy Backyard” as they put together for winter.
Margaret Roach: Go away the leaves and all that [laughter].
Margaret Renkl: Precisely. We are able to summarize the lesson from that one very simply. Yeah,
Margaret Roach: “The Leafy Blanket.” Oh, I adore it. Properly, it’s stunning. And these are collages I feel that he made aren’t they?
Margaret Renkl: They’re collages. A number of the components, not like with our different two books, he did hand-paint many of those components,.
Margaret Roach: They’re superb. Properly, congratulations, and thanks, and I hope I’ll discuss to you once more quickly, Margaret R of the South [laughter].
Margaret Renkl: Thanks a lot for having me. I really like being in your program.
enter to win a replica of ‘the weedy backyard’
Is there a favourite wild creature you’re particularly delighted to see feeling at residence in your (weedy?) backyard, and a plant or vegetation that you simply suppose significantly enchantment to them?
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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its sixteenth yr in March 2025. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Hear regionally within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the March 2, 2026 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
