improving your garden’s legibility, with leslie needham

THE “WHAT PLANT GOES WHERE?” facet of gardening is the toughest half for lots of us. And as we more and more shift our plant palette and gardening type to be extra native and ecologically targeted, selections about design might sound even a bit of trickier. We would like our panorama to be plentiful and biodiverse, full of life—but additionally to nonetheless hold collectively visually.

We would like it to be legible, and panorama designer Leslie Needham has recommendation to assist us obtain that legibility—to make our gardens actually learn, and draw the attention and the customer via them successfully.

Leslie Needham is the founding father of Leslie Needham Design in Bedford, N.Y., a 20-year-old panorama agency, and has additionally taught panorama design on the New York Botanical Backyard Panorama Design Program, the place she was accredited. Simply this yr, Leslie was one of many featured presenters within the 12-week “Much less Garden Extra Life Problem” that we’ll let you know a bit of about, simply one other of the various methods she shares her information and tactical recommendation for making gardens that work each ecologically and aesthetically.

Learn alongside as you hearken to the Sept. 22, 2025 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).

is your backyard legible? leslie needham’s suggestions

Margaret Roach: I used to be glad to have an opportunity to get higher acquainted with you latterly after I was writing a “New York Occasions” story concerning the “Much less Garden Extra Life Problem” that I used to be simply referring to within the introduction, kind of a digital self-test [photo below] and a bit of little bit of a curriculum, a 12-week self-help self-instruction course from this firm known as Plan it Wild. And I may give details about that, together with a hyperlink to your video that you simply did one of many weeks. However that was sort of enjoyable. It was nice to attach and get some recommendation from you, and I wished extra and that’s why we’re right here in the present day [laughter].

Leslie Needham: Nice. It’s enjoyable. I’ve to say, I believe the entire Plan it Wild tutorial and the 12 steps has been actually partaking, and it does make it enjoyable and approachable, and I believe that’s the entire objective of all of this.

Margaret: And there’s only a actually nice forged of collaborators concerned, Homegrown Nationwide Park, Doug Tallamy’s group, and Wild Ones, the venerable membership group across the nation, and Pollinator Partnership and so forth; a lot of different spectacular teams concerned. Yeah, and we’ll inform everyone about it, however to not derail into that, simply to say that I used to be glad that that related us, Leslie.

Leslie: Certainly.

Margaret: And so your subject in that problem, in that 12-week problem, was legibility. And so what makes a backyard lovely and what makes it hold collectively? It’s kind of been shifting lately, hasn’t it?

Leslie: It has. And I believe that’s what’s actually thrilling. I might say the paradigm of what constitutes an exquisite backyard may be very completely different from after I first began gardening at my home 23 years in the past. I believe folks recognize the truth that you’re not simply planting for your self. Whenever you carry a plant right into a backyard now, so many individuals assume, “O.Okay., I believe it’s lovely, however is it additionally going to feed the native birds, the native bugs? Is it going to be a part of my bigger ecosystem?” And I believe that’s actually thrilling, and also you see that within the plant choices as nicely. I imply, there’s so many unbelievable sources for native plug vegetation. So it’s been a very thrilling shift.

Margaret: Sure. So I assume I’ll simply say, the place can we begin? I wish to get a lot of your suggestions. Nevertheless it’s fall approaching, and I at all times consider that as a very good time to sort of take inventory, go searching, stroll round your backyard, take some notes, and so on. Particularly for these of us who don’t bear in mind to take notes when issues occur throughout the yr [laughter].

Leslie: Yeah, I believe I completely agree with you. I believe fall is a very nice time. However the good thing is while you transfer to a wilder panorama, extra nature-based, there may be a lot extra to look at. I imply past the vegetation, you usher in a lot wildlife, each within the small bugs and the birds, but additionally animals which might be making habitat.

So I believe fall is a very nice time to stroll round and see, nicely, is anybody else in right here? And you’ll begin to see, I’m seeing… Properly, the migrating birds at the moment are, however a month in the past the finches moved into an space the place I planted a lot extra Echinacea. So I make these observations additionally observe like, oh, this appears to be like good and this appears to be working, or perhaps that plant hasn’t taken off. So that you make these sort of observations.

Take into consideration your targets, and one in every of my targets is at all times how do I scale back garden after I’m engaged on a property? And one in every of my best cheat methods is taking drone pictures. And so they don’t should be fancy. In the event you don’t have a drone, I promise you you may in all probability discover a child that you would be able to rent, and it offers you this nice fowl’s-eye perspective of your property or an space.

And numerous occasions designers begin by fowl’s-eye, regardless that you don’t expertise a panorama by a fowl’s-eye, however you see connections, you see areas that, ooh, perhaps I may shrink this garden by extending this shrub border. Or I could make a path right here so subsequently I don’t want any of this garden; I may erase all of it if I simply switched to a path. And a drone is an effective way to see these connections and alternatives.

Margaret: That’s sort of enjoyable. That’s nice. And to have the ability to see once more that fowl’s-eye view. Yeah, that’s sort of a enjoyable thought.

Leslie: It’s. After which one other little hack I’ve is I believe all of us take tons of images in our gardens, and typically you’re taking them when every little thing’s in bloom and also you get distracted by how colourful and fabulous every little thing appears to be like. However for those who swap a few of these coloured pictures into black and white, it permits you to see construction much more.

And it’s possible you’ll say like, oh, truly that basically fabulous pink-blooming no matter, it’s simply mendacity in the course of the trail; I may reduce it again or clear it. You see the construction while you swap to black and white.

So these are two methods I take advantage of. And I truly do numerous that this time of yr, as a result of fortunately issues are a bit of quieter. I’m nonetheless watering like mad, however I can begin to pull again and take into consideration edits that I wish to make. And if I do wish to plant some issues, it’s additionally a good time to herald shrubs and even plugs. I’m doing that down within the orchard now.

Margaret: Was your own home backyard as soon as extra formal, kind of extra of a extra conventional ornamental-focused backyard than it’s?

Leslie: It was.

Margaret: O.Okay. So that you’ve gone via this shift your self on your own home property as nicely?

Leslie: Properly, I’m going via it nonetheless, and I discuss it truly; after I give talks on my backyard, I present the affect. I used to be fortunate 25 years in the past—I might journey to Europe and I’d see these very formal English gardens and I cherished it. I nonetheless love them. However I’d come again and I believe, O.Okay., I need the hedges, I need the boxwood. I nonetheless have lots of these remnants, however it’s such a small share now to my total planting than it was.

However I believe it’s the attitude of ageing. It’s like, oh, that was lovely; that was lovely then. Nevertheless it’s not what drives me in any respect anymore. And I’ll say that I believe you may evolve, and I believe a backyard—you don’t should do it , and I can’t rip every little thing out that I’ve. However I can begin to shift in order that my plant palette is, if the candy spot is 70 % native helpful vegetation, I can do this by actually contemplating every little thing I’m bringing in now. And it’s not boxwood anymore.

Margaret: [Laughter.] So years in the past, associates of mine who’re backyard designers from Seattle, they got here in and one of many issues they mentioned to me was after I was first making my backyard, they mentioned—as a result of we have been strolling round outdoors—they have been like, “Properly, we are able to’t begin right here. We have to go inside and look out the window, from key home windows in the home.” So one in every of their issues—and every designer has their very own suggestions, so to talk, mantras—they usually mentioned, “The place do you sit? The place do you spend your time? The place do you see this backyard from, Margaret while you’re not crawling round in your palms and knees in it?”

And so they have been like, “Go inside, look out the window and let’s body some good views so that you can recognize your handiwork while you go inside.” In order that was one in every of their suggestions.

So within the video that you simply did for the collection that we talked about, the “Much less Garden Extra Life Problem,” you gave a lot of suggestions like that about kind of acutely aware issues that might have aesthetic impression and assist to arrange what we noticed within the backyard.

Leslie: And I do agree together with your buddy, completely. And after I design as nicely, I actually take into consideration how it’s skilled from inside, as a result of I actually assume an profitable and fascinating panorama is admittedly an extension of the home. And I believe this will get into kind of the objective of blurring the sides. I imply, I believe there’s a home vernacular which then interprets right into a panorama vernacular, and they need to all be settled collectively. So I agree, it’s essential to have a look at your views from inside.

However then as you exit, you wish to lead folks via these landscapes, and these nature-based landscapes will be wilder, and you’ll profit from placing in paths. And I believe that’s a very simple very first thing to do, is even for those who mow a path via excessive plantings, it leads you thru, it takes your eye via the panorama. And it additionally simply makes it look intentional, extra cared for. However that’s a very easy factor to do.

After which I additionally assume it’s necessary to have kind of focal factors in these wilder landscapes. And they are often something from a chair that’s tucked below a tree in a mattress of ferns—I even have that at my home. Or a pot that takes your eye and focuses it. Or a pair of pots, or a pair of finials [below] that then body a view to past. So these are actually easy methods to work in these, as I say, wilder landscapes, they usually work they usually’re fairly straightforward to do, too.

Margaret: So to actually kind of direct the attention and the customer—to beckon, to say, “Come over right here, look this fashion,” and body an image, a desired image past that. Whether or not it’s a pair of finials, as you say, or gate posts or regardless of the heck it’s that announce this factor past, this view past—or simply the trail in some circumstances works that means.

Leslie: Yeah. Then the opposite factor I believe is so necessary is locations to sit down in these landscapes, as a result of there’s a heartbeat past the vegetation. And so for those who give in a woodland a small bench, or in an orchard a few chairs, you begin to have interaction with the birds and remark of this habitat you’re creating. And that’s actually particular, and it’s truly actually rewarding and sort of straightforward [laughter]. So I at all times work on getting seats all through the backyard, not simply in a single place. And it could actually simply be a bit of perch, however I believe that’s actually, actually necessary. You do get to benefit from the motive that you simply’re planting this fashion.

Margaret: That intimacy to sit down there and be nonetheless and watch and hear for who else is with you, who’s doing what within the backyard. I believe after we spoke for the Occasions story, you talked about perhaps even making a wider area inside some paths, like a circle or one thing?

Leslie: And I’ve carried out it. I had the expertise simply doing our orchard this summer time. We had a marriage, and we needed to have lots of people in our orchard, and we’ve at all times had nearly this 5-foot path that meandered via. However we then took this path after which mowed a few actually huge circles the place folks may collect.

And it has modified the entire expertise. I’m so excited. I imply, that is what I like about gardening: You’re studying. Twenty-three years we’ve been on this property, however I’m nonetheless discovering new methods to method it. And that’s a very easy factor to do. You simply take a path and in sure areas simply I create a circle. It’s excellent for placing 4 Adirondack chairs, or a hearth pit. In order that’s one other actually easy means. You don’t even have to herald the masonry. You’ll be able to change your places yr to yr. It’s a really enjoyable and straightforward solution to expertise the panorama.

Margaret: Within the video you talked about—while you talking about mowing a path or utilizing masonry or gravel or no matter—you discuss crisp edges and the way in addition they assist to outline a spot.

Leslie: Certainly. And I believe that’s one thing I hear as after I’m speaking to purchasers or folks, it’s like, “Oh, however does it simply appear to be an enormous mess?” Every part will get so tall and it flops. And I believe for those who do do the crisp edges, I typically have stone paths that go proper main via it—it’s that good yin and yang—or a gravel terrace. The vegetation could be sort of messy, however it’s held in place or it’s counterbalanced by a really strict rectangular gravel terrace.

So I believe crisp edges are necessary. And typically you even have to mow. I’ve meadows which may go to the property and simply mowing a encompass of 4 toes that surrounds that edge could make it look neater, too, and never prefer it’s similar to an unkempt portion of a property. I do assume that crisp edge can assist loads.

Margaret: Now I think—I don’t know, I haven’t seen a whole lot of images but [laughter] of all of your landscapes in each single occasion—however I think that in your beds, so to talk, of vegetation that I’m not going to see mulch, mulch, mulch, mulch, mulch, as in bagged stuff, proper?

Leslie: No, in no way. And I giggle as a result of I believe we’re all so conscious of the plastic on the earth and in our our bodies. However I additionally assume we’ve got to consider the plastic that we’re bringing into our landscapes, i.e., within the mulch and the fertilizers and the meals. And take into consideration if we shut the loop, I guess we may scale back that significantly if not utterly. So I don’t usher in mulch anymore. I do mulch my leaves, I depart my leaves in perennial beds for the winter. However I additionally plant so closely now—we name it inexperienced mulch—that when issues begin to develop, you don’t actually see floor.

And one, it’s aesthetically a lot extra pleasing. I’m completely off that look of a lot of mulch in a mattress. I believe we are able to do it higher. And also you don’t should weed as a lot. It holds the water. And likewise in case your matrix of those thick plantings consists of issues like Carex and every little thing, it has such lengthy seasonal magnificence as a result of they’re this lovely gold all through my beds within the winter as they dry. So I believe there’s so many higher methods to have mulch, i.e., inexperienced mulch—vegetation—and every little thing in a mattress, than simply bagged mulch.

Margaret: I at all times cherished years in the past, Claudia West, the designer from Phyto Studio, she mentioned, “Vegetation are the mulch, Margaret.” She mentioned, “Vegetation are the mulch.” [Laughter.] [Below, a stretch of green mulch atop a wall.]

Leslie: And they’re. Like a Carex albicans subsequent to a hellebore: They appear so lovely collectively. It’s like artwork as nicely. And they’re. And when you begin to do this—and once more, that is one thing I wasn’t doing after I first began gardening—you actually have enjoyable with it. And also you begin searching for partnership vegetation that look nice in perennial beds and borders collectively.

Margaret: So we’re searching for some focal areas that we wish to direct the attention to. We’re going to border some views. We’re going to make paths. We’re going to ask our eye and our guests and ourselves in. We’re going to make seating areas. We’re going to maintain a number of the edges crisper.

And what other forms of issues, for those who’re strolling with a shopper via a backyard presently of yr, what are a number of the different issues that you simply’re searching for when it comes to eventual tweaks or recommendation or no matter—or that you simply’re enthusiastic about in your personal backyard?

Leslie: Properly, one factor is speaking about blurring the sides. And I believe it’s actually thrilling—and Doug Tallamy may be very a lot about this, our related landscapes. However I believe there’s this nice alternative within the suburban areas that we reside in, the roadsides, that are often mowed garden. But when all of us began to plant these out with extra mixtures of native small shrubs—I do know cities have to typically reduce in these areas, however native perennials—we may begin to join landscapes in communities so simply and make it so fairly. In order that’s one factor I’m enthusiastic about is how can we proceed to blur edges?

Margaret: So blur the sides, which means? Inform me a bit of bit extra about that, give me examples of what blurring the sides is.

Leslie: Properly, I believe blurring the sides is making it in order that while you drive by a panorama, you may’t say like, “Oh, their property begins right here and ends there,” as a result of the plant materials will bleed; hopefully their neighbor’s on board with this, too. So they could have some kind of viburnum that goes via their woodland, the native viburnum, some winterberry, however it doesn’t finish at my property, however it blurs to the following one.

And I believe a very easy place to begin this are these mowed grassways which might be round alongside each roadside suburban space. And we’re beginning it in just a few locations in our city, and I find it irresistible. And I believe it’s sort of a straightforward and enjoyable solution to begin planting in a extra naturalistic method, and likewise sort of get to know your neighbors, as a result of persons are engaged on these collectively like, “Oh, I’m doing this. Would you wish to do it?” And it’s enjoyable.

Margaret: O.Okay. In order that’s one other one then. I assume that while you first studied panorama design, the recommendation was in all probability an inventory of instruments, so to talk, design methods or instruments or practices. I don’t know if all of them nonetheless apply, or they’ve developed.

Leslie: Properly, they’ve developed, however I believe design is predicated additionally on the sensible, and likewise geometry. As I say, after I have a look at the entrance of a home, I don’t put planting all towards the home. The rule, and I nonetheless assume it really works, is take your entrance of your home and flip it down. And your planting ought to actually work round that space, so don’t plant all proper up towards your home.

Margaret: So take the entrance of your home, flip it down, I’m sorry; take your entrance of your home and flip it down, which means?

Leslie: Flip it down. And so if your home is 20 toes, you go down and that’s 20 toes, that’s all to the place you plant. That 20 toes gives you kind of an entrance and a plinth on which to settle your home. And I believe on this extra naturalistic landscaping, that’s a very good factor.

I imply, naturalistic can sort of be bigger gestures, so give your self area to do it. Don’t simply, as I say, plant proper on the fringe of your home.

Margaret: As a result of what we noticed within the post-World Conflict II preliminary templated suburban communities, was stuff virtually glued to the entrance facade of the home [laughter]. As they known as it: “basis planting.” Properly named.

Leslie: Proper. And truly, when you step away from that, initially, you’re like, “Oh yeah, this makes a lot sense,” as a result of it offers you respiratory room and it creates an exquisite plinth, as I mentioned, for your home to sit down on. And so I imply, I believe that’s actually necessary is ensuring that you simply work in a big scale instantly round your home, massive in proportion to your home, like flipping it over. I believe that’s a very necessary first step.

Margaret: The opposite place that I see numerous occasions after I go to folks’s gardens they usually’re getting began they usually ask questions and so forth…

I didn’t know what I used to be doing after I first got here right here to the place I’m a long time in the past. However for some motive I ended up doing this factor that turned out to be each enticing and ecologically sound. A variety of occasions we mow proper to the sides of our property and there shall be like a again fence and a facet fence, kind of these areas that don’t have a lot use typically, as a result of once more, they’re the perimeter. But when they have been planted, particularly with issues that have been good for wildlife, they might grow to be edge habitat—ecotone, as they name it in science—the place the place all of the motion is, the place the bugs…

And so these areas are blended shrubs and vines with herbaceous issues beneath and so forth. And I made these kind of huge beds, I kind of got here in perhaps 15, 20 toes from the sting and simply made these big shrub borders with herbaceous stuff beneath. And it seems that’s the place everyone at all times is, all of the birds and everyone’s nesting and consuming winterberry fruit, and what I imply?

And so typically that space’s wasted. It’s like we’re mowing, we’re pushing that lawnmower proper as much as the sting, and we may seize 10 toes there.

Leslie: Precisely. And that’s the opposite factor: enthusiastic about while you do these extra naturalistic landscapes the upkeep necessities and the supplies which might be wanted and the way we’re going to look after them. And for those who do this, it actually does take loads much less care.

Margaret: Completely. Completely.

Leslie: I believe that’s an actual good thing about this. I’m not saying they’re maintenance-free as a result of no panorama, when you begin to work on it, is maintenance-free, however that could be a lot much less upkeep. After which hopefully your neighbor says like, “Oh, that appears actually good. And so they’re not out mowing that each weekend. Possibly I ought to do this.”

And that’s the place I believe this blurring the sides, these prolonged shared habitats, is fairly thrilling. And I do assume that’s occurring; I do assume it’s occurring.

Margaret: Is there one final thing you simply wish to rapidly inform us to be looking out for?

Leslie: Properly, I’m excited. I believe it is a actual motion, and I might say get out: Stroll your personal property with a watch to towards the various animals and bugs and birds that make it their dwelling, and how one can modify it or work on it and enhance it for them as nicely. And also you’ll discover a lot of little issues, as you say: Plant the sides; go to a brand new space. Add water in numerous areas for the birds. Simply have a look at your panorama from a barely wider perspective on who’s going to be having fun with it.

Margaret: Good recommendation—and who you’re going to get to fulfill, which is sort of enjoyable.

Leslie: Sure, precisely. Sure.

Margaret: Properly, Leslie, I’m so glad to talk to you, and I loved your video, one of many weeks of the 12-week “Much less Garden Extra Life Problem.” And as I mentioned, I’ll give details about that in addition to about your work for Leslie Needham Design and so forth. Nevertheless it’s been enjoyable speaking to you, and I hope I’ll converse to you once more quickly. Thanks.

Leslie: Thanks, Margaret. I’ve actually loved it.

(All images courtesy of Leslie Needham Design.)

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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its sixteenth yr in March 2025. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Jap, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Sept. 22, 2025 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).