WHETHER OUT LOUD right here on the podcast or simply between us on one in all our periodic late Friday afternoon cellphone calls, I at all times profit from catching up with Joe Lamp’l (a.okay.a. Joe Gardener). In all probability no time for speaking is extra helpful than round yr’s finish, when Joe and I like to match notes on what went nicely—and never a lot—in our backyard adventures. Evaluating notes with a good friend who’s a fellow gardener may also help every of us do higher subsequent time, and that’s what’s on the agenda on this dialog.
Joe Lamp’l is host of the favored “Joe Gardener Podcast,” and creator of a set of on-line programs about gardening—or maybe you understand him from his former long-running public tv program referred to as “Rising a Greener World.” Joe gardens within the Atlanta space, and I don’t know any dwelling gardener who begins extra seeds every season (suppose: 1000’s and 1000’s, after which 1000’s extra for good measure). He’s the creator of “The Vegetable Gardening Guide: Your Full Information to Rising an Edible Natural Backyard from Seed to Harvest” (affiliate hyperlink) and was glad for the possibility to recap the yr with him.
Plus: Remark within the field close to the underside of the web page to enter to win a duplicate of Joe’s vegetable gardening information.
Learn alongside as you take heed to the Dec. 30, 2024 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
the yr previous, and the one forward, with joe lamp’l
Margaret Roach: Hello, Joe. How are you, Mr. 1000’s and 1000’s and 1000’s and 1000’s?
Joe Lamp’l: [Laughter.] I really like speaking to you for a lot of causes, however you make me chuckle a lot. That proper there: I’m busted, but it surely’s true. I can’t deny it.
Margaret: What number of?
Joe: And it’s within the 1000’s someplace, however nearer to a few than two.
Margaret: Yeah, that’s regular. Certain, yeah. And the way many individuals in your loved ones? 4-hundred, is that what you stated?
Joe: [Laughter.] Yeah, two, three at dwelling proper now and so roughly a thousand an individual. That’s not regular.
Margaret: No. Sure. I don’t know. [Laughter.] O.Ok., nicely we’ve obtained that straightened out, so no decision wanted there. You’re simply going to go to three,000 for subsequent yr. Nice. Excellent.
Joe: Rounding up.
Margaret: O.Ok., so earlier than we get began formally, I believe we must always say that we’re form of doing this backwards and forwards on each our exhibits, aren’t we, this week? [Joe’s interview of me this week is at this link.]
Joe: We’re. I really like to select your mind and on the finish of the yr, as you already stated, it’s nice to recap. All year long we speak, but it surely’s actually form of enjoyable to look again over the yr collectively and assess our highs and lows. So we’re doing that with one another this week, and I’m excited to listen to a recap of your yr.
Margaret: Alright. So folks can pay attention form of the complete story, and we’ll hopefully not duplicate the whole lot and it received’t be fully boring and redundant [laughter].
Joe: It won’t.
Margaret: O.Ok., good. So when you needed to characterize your 2024 rising season in a phrase or two, what wouldn’t it be? Mine can be parched, I believe, as a result of it was dry.
Joe: Mine can be irritating, on account of a few of the identical causes. So that you gave one, however simply the dryness, and the warmth.
Margaret: Yeah, and I believe that was nationwide, at totally different instances and in numerous intensities; I believe that was nationwide. A variety of gardeners felt issues in a manner they hadn’t earlier than. Yeah, yeah. In order that was one: irritating, and sizzling and dry. What about, have been there stunning moments? Have been there victories? Have been there?
Joe: Sure. The victories, they at all times come within the fall for me. Let me set the stage once more. Simply you stated, I stay in Atlanta, however right here we’re identified for top humidity and excessive warmth, and that doesn’t play properly with a variety of the issues that we prefer to develop within the summertime, specifically edibles. And so we’ll speak about this a little bit bit extra. When you don’t deliver it up, I’ll, however we form of robust it out by means of {the summertime}, in lots of instances, to get to the autumn. And for me, possibly it’s due to that, that I’m such a fan of fall gardening, whether or not it’s flowers or greens or each, but it surely’s form of the reward or the dessert after the liver and onion typically [laughter] that you simply put up with to get to that point.
So the excessive ends for me once more this yr have been simply the joys of the low-maintenance, less-hectic tempo of the autumn backyard for me. And I notably discovered it additional peaceable and rewarding this yr, as a result of I acknowledge this yr greater than every other yr that I can recall how a lot I loved the autumn backyard. as a result of I wasn’t racing the clock, or coping with illnesses or pest points like I had been in prior months this yr.
Margaret: It’s fascinating you say that, as a result of we have been simply so dry and so annoyed, these two phrases, within the late summer time and throughout the autumn. It was simply brutal right here as nicely, which could be very uncommon for us. However in a manner, there was a silver lining for a gardener like myself, who’s been pushing aside tasks. You at all times have a listing, and also you do the triage, however you don’t get all of them executed.
Joe: [Laughter.] Proper.
Margaret: Properly, it was just like the frost-free season and it wasn’t snowing, it wasn’t even pouring because it typically is within the fall, or too chilly to be on the market or something. It simply went on and on and on.
It appeared like September, however with no rain perpetually and ever and ever, nicely into I believe the top of November. And so I simply saved doing tasks that had been delay time and again. Have you learnt what I imply? In order that was good in a option to have an additional stretch there within the fall.
Joe: Agreed. And we had a nice fall the place the temperatures have been cooler sooner than regular for us, however with out the rain. And what I’ve been used to for a few years, many of the years I can keep in mind, is simply that traditional to me fall climate the place you get the gloomy afternoons of sunshine, misty rains within the cooler climate all through the autumn fairly a bit. However this yr we simply didn’t get that till only a couple weeks in the past for the primary time this season.
So in some ways I obtained to spend extra day trip within the fall backyard, as a result of it wasn’t so nasty with the climate. And the crops have been very blissful, and I’ve to attribute a variety of that to nice soil that holds the moisture that it wants. I didn’t do any supplemental watering, but it surely was simply form of a magical…and each fall right here is gorgeous for the autumn backyard, however this yr simply greater than ever, it was additional particular.
Margaret: O.Ok. So, nonetheless… [laughter]–
Joe: At all times, nonetheless.
Margaret: I do know you’re simply speaking about the way you didn’t do any supplemental watering. And I couldn’t—and if we have now summers like this any longer, I can’t, as a result of I’ve a nicely and I can’t danger the nicely. When the streams close to me are dry, when the stream beds are dry, I imply, I’m not going to make use of my nicely, aside from important stuff. So I really feel like, I don’t find out about you, however I really feel like I’ve to regulate.
I’ve this large—not large in comparison with yours—however outdated, 30-year-old structure of raised beds, typical raised-bed containers, 20-by-5 most of them are. Beds that I’ve at all times grown edibles in and so forth, and so they’re out within the full solar, and it’s more durable to maintain a variety of issues blissful there, even up north right here within the peak season, within the hottest a part of the season. So I’m pondering, how am I going to do this, and is that what I wish to do out in these containers perpetually now? So what about you? Any modifications in that?
Joe: Sure, I’m used to filling up 16 massive raised beds with all edibles, however up to now couple years I’ve lastly come round and stated, “Why am I doing that?” As a result of as you alluded to a minute in the past, actually, there’s simply two of us now, and I’ve obtained far more meals than we are able to even give away. I imply, we do find yourself giving it away, but it surely’s work. And as a lot as I really like rising the meals, I’m not a fan of harvesting. It’s not my favourite factor to do. I really like the chase or the problem, however when you get the whole lot ripe and it’s prepared to reap, that’s form of the objective; you’ve gotten there. And now actually it’s the bounty that we must be benefiting from absolutely. And we do this, I ought to say, but it surely’s far more than we are able to use.
So we’re capable of give it away, however that requires additional work and time. And I’ve not sufficient time, and I’ve executed sufficient work by then [laughter]. So I’m really, as of two years in the past, we began dedicating a few of our mattress house for edibles to flowers, each decorative and pollinator-attracting native perennials. And we’re migrating extra into that facet of it. So I’m in all probability on the report someplace saying this yr, with 2025 developing subsequent season, I’ll take half of the 16 beds and dedicate them to flowers, which is a primary for me. And even then with eight massive beds, that’s nonetheless going to be extra meals than my household can eat.
Margaret: Properly, the bugs are going to be blissful to see all these flowers.
Joe: Sure. And it makes us blissful. I say us myself, my household, and Toby, my farm supervisor who comes out a couple of instances per week. We now have observed how way more the backyard comes alive. You hear that expression “plant it and they’re going to come,” and there’s no misinform that. It’s so true. And after we first actually obtained into {that a} couple years in the past, and it was manner overdue, it was night-and-day distinction in that first yr. And since then we proceed so as to add in. Greater than ever we see although the requisite quantity, or the consummate quantity, of life coming with the additional quantity that we’re planting that’s attracting the wildlife. And so we wish to maintain that going, and that’s thrilling.
Margaret: In order that’s a good suggestion. So I suppose after we’re procuring the seed catalogs this winter, we must always have an eye fixed out to some issues that may be good for that form of not excessive upkeep, however pollinator-attracting annuals. I assume a variety of these are annuals?
Joe: Each. We’re doing each annuals and perennials. We devoted perimeter beds throughout the backyard that we constructed a few years in the past, and we obtained these devoted to each ornamentals and native perennials. And so we’re working by means of the structure, and what stays and the place can we transfer issues round for solar and their preferences. However we have now lower flowers within the backyard for private use. It’s not like we’re promoting them or something like that, so we wouldn’t have room for that, however we don’t want a variety of room for that. And so my coronary heart is in rising extra native perennials in and across the backyard.
Margaret: A few of my raised beds, as I stated, are 30 years outdated or no matter, and a few of them aren’t in fine condition, and a few of them I’ve repaired and changed one wall or one other and so forth. And I used to be additionally pondering, nicely, do I maintain those which are form of a multitude? Do I exchange them, or do I scale down? I do know you’ve been doing develop luggage on the periphery, I believe exterior the fenced backyard or close to your greenhouse. I don’t understand how you want that. I imply, are you additionally pondering of cutting down over all in any respect, or how about your beds? Are you doing something needing restore?
Joe: Oh my gosh. It’s such as you’re right here. Sure.
Margaret: Oh yeah, me, too.
Joe: I’m actually at that crossroads of going through actuality. I’ve stunning cedar, 6-by-6 timber raised beds, and I really like them and so they have served me very nicely, but it surely’s additionally been about 15 years in service, in excessive humidity. And it’s time. They’re displaying me; they’re actually in decline now.
And so I’ve to make a very laborious determination, and I don’t actually know what I’m going to do but, Margaret. I’m not going to surrender the house. I’ll at all times develop in that space and I’ll in all probability maintain raised beds, however I can’t afford to duplicate the beds that I’ve as a result of the price of 6-by-6 cedar timbers now, it was costly 15 years in the past; now I don’t even suppose I might go there. So I don’t have a alternative choice but.
Margaret: It makes each tomato and Brussels sprout fairly dear [laughter].
Joe: What was that e book? “The $68 Tomato” or no matter? Now it’s $268.
Margaret: Precisely, precisely.
Joe: Yeah.
Margaret: One of many issues I used to be capable of do with the stretched season, with the autumn that simply went on perpetually, was exchange a form of retaining wall at one finish of the property that was actually rotting. That was form of like railroad tie-ish wanting massive outdated timbers, form of like what you’re saying, however even larger, 8-by-8’s. And I used to be actually shocked on the worth of the brand new ones. And when you don’t wish to use a handled product, it’s actually difficult. It’s actually difficult, as a result of what do you might have domestically that’s milled or that’s lower domestically that you should utilize that has even 10 or 15 years’ supposed rot resistance and so forth.
Joe: And also you’re proper. What’s that product? I’ll say I’m jealous of a good friend, a gardener neighbor of mine who lives quarter-hour away, who’s an ideal gardener, and he has like me, 6-by-6 sized…They’re not timbers. They’re made out of granite. He has granite raised beds within the form of timbers, squared-off timbers. They’re to die for and you’ll die earlier than they ever go away. That’s the factor.
They’re everlasting, and I haven’t priced them but, but it surely’s on my listing to analyze. I doubt that I might afford them, however that may be the reply for beds in perpetuity with not being handled and domestically sourced, however to be decided, however I imply, it’s on the market. It’s loopy.
Margaret: The opposite factor: So I believe we’re each in the identical fine-tuning each what we’re planting, additionally the situation of the beds and what we’re going to do to tweak them or reinvest in them or restore them or no matter, or exchange them. The opposite factor: My water gardens. I’m like Miss Recognition as a result of I’m the one individual round right here with water gardens. I imply, I’m not in a densely populated space, however however, I get a variety of guests to my backyard that individuals down the street don’t get, as a result of I’ve a few in-ground water gardens that I’ve had for a very long time. So I’m form of like an ideal place to get a drink on a sizzling day [laughter].
Joe: I can attest to that. I’ve seen it.
Margaret: Proper, the native bar.
Joe: The native the whole lot.
Margaret: However these want some restore. I used to be pondering restore. And the one challenge I didn’t do, even on this prolonged fall due to the heave-and-thaw, heave-and-thaw coming of the winter, I didn’t wish to do stonework on the sides of ponds and issues like that, that a few of the stuff wants. The coping alongside the sides wants restore, and that’s the form of factor that you simply wish to do when then the season’s going to be steady for six months, have you learnt what I imply? You don’t wish to do it earlier than an enormous 2 ft within the floor of frost heaves it up once more. You need issues to settle. In order that wasn’t a great time to do this. However at any fee, my water gardens want some tweaking, however thank goodness they’re right here.
Joe: And don’t you’re keen on them, Margaret? I’d seen them in footage earlier than I noticed them in individual, and each time I come, I simply see that life that you simply’re speaking about, and the sound, and simply the ingredient of the transferring water that brings a lot life to it, together with typically for you, I believe bears, proper, don’t they?
Margaret: [Laughter.] Everyone. Yeah. Yeah, all people. Yeah.
Joe: Properly, that’s on my listing. That’s on my listing for 2025. I might like to have a water backyard like yours, and I hope to. The plans are in place proper now, but it surely’s been on my listing for a very long time. However I’m extra severe than ever in getting that executed, together with a deer fence, which is the opposite challenge. The opposite two main tasks are colliding as to who will get executed first. However I believe the fence goes to have to return first, as a result of in any other case I’m going to have a few of the identical guests you’ll that don’t get an invite.
Margaret: And I do have a fence, and that was an enormous funding, possibly 20-something years in the past, and I’ve by no means seemed again. It was one of the best factor I ever did was put a fence across the place. Yeah, no, that’s positively a good suggestion.
Properly, and with water options, I imply, I believe everybody doing their wanting across the backyard, making a listing for what they’ll do higher subsequent yr, a good friend who was transferring gave me a form of a concrete-ish stone fowl tub factor on legs. It’s form of Japanese-y wanting; he stated, “Oh, would you like this?” And I simply form of put it out on the patio the place it’s not close to the opposite water options, and the birds simply go loopy for it. It’s hilarious.
So it’s like even I realized, even having had water all these years, I realized we are able to place small quantities of water across the place and actually do an ideal service, as a result of a few of them will use it to wash and a few will use it to drink and totally different options for various issues.
Joe: Water, that’s so necessary. Yeah, I believe we take it as a right. We simply assume that the wildlife goes to seek out the water they want someplace, however that’s the case typically. However in different instances, it’s not the case and so they’re actually determined for it ,right down to the bees and the opposite bugs who, in my one nonetheless fowl bath-style water function that’s close to the fowl feeder, the commonest customer to which are the honeybees that come from some hives I’ve obtained. They usually encompass your complete perimeter of it, and so they’re consuming water many of the day all through the summer time till it’s darkish. And so there’s little issues.
And after I take heed to podcasts throughout and rather a lot from the U.Ok. everybody that ever mentions, “What’s one of the best factor you ever did in your backyard? What’s an important factor you ever did?” Nearly each time, the very first thing out of their mouth is a straightforward water function. We’re not even essentially taliking transferring water, however only a place that holds water that permits for the wildlife to get what they want.
Margaret: So every other form of resolves? I imply, I’m on a marketing campaign towards invasive issues, and we’re at all times all on that, however I’m being extra… Like there’s a mattress within the entrance that had that chameleon plant that was such a decorative years in the past, Houttuynia cordata, and it’s only a nightmare of all nightmares. And I’ve tried 50 instances to do away with it and so forth and so forth. I’ve tarped it and solarized it and mowed and no matter, suffocated it with cardboard and dug it out one million instances. [Laughter.] However this time I actually, actually, actually, actually, actually, actually dug it out. And I’m leaving the mattress; I’ve made a dedication, you’ll be able to hear me say it out loud-
Joe: O.Ok.
Margaret: …the mattress is staying empty for at the very least a few years. I took out all of the crops. Nothing can go in there as a result of it’s going to re-sprout and I’m going to wish to redo it and re-clean it and re-clean it. Proper. Typically we have now to let go of that it’s going to be an eyesore. It’s going to be this empty mattress in a outstanding spot, however I’ve obtained to do this to beat this plant, this invasive, this rhizomatous perennial.
Joe: The choice is you don’t do it, and also you let that invasive perennial come again with a vengeance, and it’ll. So that you’ve obtained to chew the bullet and suck it up for a pair years, and hopefully that can do the trick. Fingers crossed.
Margaret: Do you might have every other issues, not essentially invasive, however different issues which are type in your listing of resolves?
Joe: Sure. This yr I’ve actually grappled with… I’ve at all times been cognizant of the significance of leaving the leaves, and that’s been an enormous subject all through the autumn and for good motive. And I’ve obtained a 5-acre wooded, semi-wooded property right here. So I’ve no scarcity of leaves, however I’ve by no means collected the leaves from my very own property and moved them or shred them and used them for mulch elsewhere. They simply mulch the place they fall.
However within the space that I stay, even though it’s rural round my quick space, there’s a variety of subdivisions inside 5 minutes from right here, and so they’re form of required to bag up their leaves and set them on the curb, after which the trash service comes and picks them up actually and takes them to the landfill. There’s not even an choice to take them to a composting facility. In order an enormous fan of leaf mulch, I take my Saturdays, and I’ve talked to you about this up to now, however these fall Saturdays I’m driving round to those luggage on the curb and placing them in my pickup truck and driving them again to my place. And for the early years, I might acquire as many luggage as I wanted, and I’d shred them and put them in my leaf corral, and I’d use them within the following spring.
Properly, over time, I advanced to nonetheless acquire as many leaves as I might in the middle of a day over three Saturdays within the fall, November. However I might launch, what I referred to as “free the leaves,” into my native panorama beds, in all probability about 80 % of them. And the opposite 20 was my compromise to myself that I might shred these and never really feel responsible about it, as a result of all the leaves that I had collected have been destined for the landfill, anyway. And I used to be releasing 80 % again into my property, hoping that together with it went the overwintering wildlife. However even this yr, I struggled with even shredding any of them. And that’s to not make anyone really feel unhealthy about that.
Margaret: I do know, I do know. I do know. The extra we turn into acutely aware of those hidden organisms, these tiny little hidden organisms simply seeking to tuck in for the winter or reproduce or no matter they’re utilizing vegetation and light vegetation and sticks and twigs and no matter for—the extra we turn into conscious of that, the more durable it’s to take a few of the actions that we used to take,
Joe: Even with that small share. So I’ll simply inform you actual fast what my decision, my unintended decision, had turned out to be for this yr. And I’m feeling good about this. I simply selected to not for a number of causes. I selected to not mulch something this yr, and simply take a yr off and attempt to maintain figuring it out.
Properly, within the meantime, an acquaintance of mine who lives close by has a garden service, and in the course of the fall, his crew is sucking up the leaves from his shoppers’ property or blowing them out to the road, after which he purchased an enormous leaf vacuum on an enormous trailer, and so they suck up and so they go into the trailer already shredded. Properly, he knew my love for shredded leaves, so he reached out to me two weeks in the past and stated, “Hey, you want any leaves?” And I stated, “Properly, yeah, I don’t have any this yr, however are they shredded?” They usually stated they’re. And I stated, “Deliver ’em.” So Margaret, I obtained the most important Christmas current I’ve ever had.
Margaret: I used to be going to say Christmas got here early in Atlanta.
Joe: It did, and now it’s come twice, as a result of he is aware of I’m his dumping supply, mainly, as a result of right here’s the factor, I’m simply intercepting the handoff as a result of all of the sucking and the shredding was executed earlier than I even knew about it. And nothing I do or say goes to vary what he’s going to be doing.
So he simply is now utilizing me as his drop-off spot. And so now I’ve about actually 10 years’ value of what it could’ve taken me to do if I have been amassing and shredding, and now they’re simply dumping and there they’re.
Margaret: I adore it.
Joe: I adore it. I adore it too. [Laughter.]
Margaret: I wish to say that I’ve obtained to go discover out now which of the mow-and-blow corporations round right here has a kind of machines that wishes to dump their leaves, their shredded leaves, right here.
Joe: These, nicely, that’s the top of, that’s the remainder of the story. Thanks for saying that as a result of for me, absolutely that is going down across the nation.
Margaret: All over the place.
Joe: And so for many who are battling the identical points, that could be an choice for you.
Margaret: So we might get free mulch basically, or compostable materials; natural materials. Yeah. I’m going looking out [laughter], however Joe, I at all times love speaking to you. And as I stated earlier within the present, to start with, I’m going to return be a visitor on yours this week as nicely, in your podcast. And we’re going to do a giveaway of your e book, the vegetable gardening e book. Not that you simply develop a variety of greens or something, or have any expertise with that.
Joe: [Laughter.] Thanks.
Margaret: And ho, ho ho and no matter.
Joe: Proper again at you. Thanks, Margaret.
(All images courtesy of Joe Lamp’l, from his backyard.)
enter to win a signed copy of ‘the vegetable gardening e book’
I’LL SEND A signed copy of “The Vegetable Gardening Guide: Your Full Information to Rising an Edible Natural Backyard from Seed to Harvest” by Joe Lamp’l to 1 fortunate reader. All it’s important to do to enter is reply this query within the feedback field beneath:
Any resolves for the brand new backyard yr forward, or reflections from 2024’s?
No reply, or feeling shy? Simply say one thing like “depend me in” and I’ll, however a reply is even higher. I’ll choose a random winner after entries shut Tuesday Jan. 7, 2025 at midnight. Good luck to all.
(Disclosure: As an Amazon Affiliate I earn from qualifying purchases.)
desire the podcast model of the present?
MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its fifteenth yr in March 2024. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Jap, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Dec. 30, 2024 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
