THE LAST TIME I spoke to Alla Olkhovska from her residence and backyard in Ukraine, she confessed to rising about 120 several types of Clematis—a quantity that after seeing her not too long ago revealed e-book “Clematis Passports,” which profiles 140 varieties, I think has elevated within the 12 months and a half since that chat. Regardless of the exact quantity, suffice it to say that Alla is dedicated to rising and propagating Clematis, and photographing them and utilizing them in lower flower preparations, too.
They’re a pleasure of her life, and have been the topic of our dialog. Alla, along with her twin passions for crops and pictures, lives and gardens in northeastern Ukraine, in Kharkiv, the place within the face of the fact of conflict the final three-and-a-half years she has ramped up a mail-order seed-selling enterprise and written two e-books about her particular love, Clematis.
Alla was additionally the topic of the documentary movie “Gardening in a Struggle Zone,” produced in December 2023 by Rob Finch of the famed Floret Flowers farm in Washington State, who launched me to Alla at the moment to work on a “New York Instances” backyard column collectively.
Learn alongside as you hearken to the Aug. 11, 2025 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You’ll be able to subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
Plus: Remark within the field close to the underside of the web page for an opportunity to win copies of her two e-books about Clematis.
clematis, with alla olkhovska
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Margaret Roach: Howdy, Alla. How are you?
Alla Olkhovska: Hello, Margaret. I’m so glad to satisfy you once more. We’re high-quality; properly, sadly the conflict right here continues. [A bombed-out building in Kharkiv, below.]
Margaret: I do know. I watch to your Instagram tales and so forth, and see the information that manner, and I’m sorry, however I’m glad you have got a great spirit, and I’m glad that the backyard helps you retain that spirit going.
So I do know only for some background, for individuals who don’t know you, I do know there was a practice of working with crops in your loved ones. I feel after World Struggle II, your great-grandfather began an orchard referred to as Linden Grove Gardens on the plot of land the place your Clematis now develop. And his intention, like yours a long time later, was to help the household, I consider. So inform us a bit little bit of the background.
Alla: Yeah, that is actually so. This backyard was organized first by my great-grandfather, and the historical past of the household was actually, actually troublesome as a result of they lived within the neighboring area, the Sumy area, they usually had an property the place that they had plenty of land and plenty of crops, which they have been rising in their very own land. However then the October Revolution began again in 1917, and Bolsheviks got here to energy, and all their property and all of the lands they possessed have been expropriated, sadly. And later, my great-grandfather, he was accused of hiding some meals inside his home. And at these occasions, such accusations have been very, very widespread, and he was taken for jail; he was taken to jail only for hiding some meals inside his home. And really in a while, his imprisonment was kindly changed by an exile to Siberia.
And all of the household adopted my great-grandfather. They simply hated Siberia as a result of the local weather was very, very completely different. It’s very extreme, very chilly, they usually didn’t need to keep there. However then when the Second World Struggle began, he was recruited and he managed to outlive throughout that conflict.
After the conflict, really, the authorities stated that he was rehabilitated, however they by no means returned the property they usually by no means returned the land. However for the participation within the conflict, he was granted a plot of land, and he had a alternative: So he might select a plot close to Kiev or a plot close to Kharkiv, and he select Kharkiv as a result of it was nearer our relations, to our preliminary property, they usually wished to return again to the land, a lot in order that he select Kharkiv. And he got here right here. Truly, he didn’t have any cash, simply lots of land, which was completely empty, and he needed to borrow cash from the state to be able to construct this home. And he planted this apple tree orchard. And his concept was first to help his household as a result of the Soviet occasions have been actually, actually troublesome occasions and the shortages have been in every single place. So that you couldn’t simply stroll to the store and purchase the meals you need.
Margaret: Proper.
Alla: Even if you happen to had cash, in order that was unimaginable. And there have been no good greens or good fruit within the Soviet Union. The meals was fairly poor and poor trying. And his concept was to provide his household with recent fruit. And he planted plenty of apple timber, largely apple timber. However we additionally had a number of cherries, a number of plums, a number of apricot timber. So his concept was to provide the household.
Margaret: So an agricultural background for certain in your loved ones [laughter]. And earlier than the conflict started, the most recent conflict started in February 2022, you have been on a private path to begin a nursery on that very same plot of land, I consider, Clematis and species peonies and different treasures. However you needed to shift gears, like your fellow residents, and also you’ve stored shifting gears over and once more. However you needed to shift gears to a different form of mannequin of enterprise to earn cash for the household, proper? You couldn’t make the nursery as a result of folks weren’t going to return to go to the nursery in a conflict zone. Yeah?
Alla: Sure. My concept initially was to create an nursery. Truly, my technique differed from the technique of the great-grandfather as a result of I like ornamental gardening extra, and I began planting plenty of ornamental crops right here. And because the backyard was very shady as a result of we had plenty of apple timber, my concept was plant below them plenty of shade-loving crops, particularly I like Japanese perennials.
However because the apple timber grew older they usually have been dried out and we needed to lower them down, plenty of solar appeared within the backyard. And that was the time after I planted my first Clematis as a result of they like solar largely. Most of Clematis, some Clematis, just like the Atragene Group, they like shady situations, they usually’re nonetheless winding over the outdated apple timber grown by my great-grandfather.
And my concept was to make a nursery, that needs to be a rare-plant nursery, as a result of my plot is sort of small, and the uncommon crops, uncommon perennials, they’re often fairly small crops, and I wished to suit plenty of them. And earlier than the conflict, we began creating flower beds for propagation with lighter soil and higher situations to be able to present higher dividing of the crops to make it faster. However then sadly, my husband fell sick. That was earlier than the conflict in autumn 2021. After which in February 2022, the conflict began. And sadly I couldn’t implement my plan into life.
Margaret: So that you’ve transitioned to mail-order seeds, every year; I assume within the fall and past, you mail-order seeds out of your crops, ship seeds all around the globe to clients, I feel. And also you even have written these two eBooks, one referred to as “Clematis,” after which yet another not too long ago referred to as “Clematis Passports.” So to be able to earn cash by way of these crops in a manner, and your love of those crops, you’ve shifted gears, as I stated.
And also you realized about rising Clematis, I feel, lots of it even on-line, even by way of teams, pastime teams and so forth. However it’s turn into an actual ardour. Are you aware what zone you’ll be if you happen to have been within the U.S.? Give us an concept of what it’s like there. I feel you have got scorching, dry summers, however I don’t know the way chilly you get within the winter.
Alla: Properly, I feel I reside in USDA Zone 5, really. Yeah, this classification may be very, very handy, and we use it extensively. And often I verify the crops to what zone they belong below the USDA classification. That is Zone 5, so our winter, sure, it may be extreme as much as minus-25 levels Celsius [minus-13 Fahrenheit]. Properly, I do know that in the US, often you employ Fahrenheit. It’s troublesome for me as a result of our system is a bit bit completely different.
Margaret: That’s O.Okay. I don’t perceive Celsius, both [laughter].
Alla: It may be fairly chilly, however crops belonging to Zone 5 USDA, they develop very properly right here. And the summer time, properly, it may be scorching. For instance, this 12 months, the summer time isn’t scorching in any respect. The largest temperature we had was round 30 levels Celsius [86 Fahrenheit]. So it’s very, very heat, however not really too scorching. And the crops really feel simply completely nice.
Margaret: So what number of Clematis varieties? You need to confess, and inform me the reality now, what number of completely different ones do you have got in your backyard [laughter]?
Alla: Oh, properly, for certain, 140 varieties.
Margaret: Oh, my goodness.
Alla: Yeah, as a result of after I began nice in my second e-book, “Clematis Passports,” my concept was to present the attribute options of all of the Clematis I develop in my backyard. And in addition I offered the images of all of the Clematis I develop in my backyard, and I counted them, and I had 140 within the backyard.
Margaret: It’s wonderful. So if you say the small print, the pertinent particulars are just like the hardiness zones, the pruning teams, when to prune them, the flowering occasions, whether or not they have perfume, in the event that they make a great lower flower—all these varieties of particulars. And from these, what number of months of bloom do you suppose you get from the earliest to the most recent examples?
Alla: Oh, simply nearly because the starting of the rising season, in April, the Atragene Clematis begin to flower very, very early, and until the primary frost, as a result of I’ve many heracleifolia varieties, they’re late-blooming, so plenty of tangutica varieties, Clematis songarica, they’re late-flowering species and in addition bell-shaped Clematis, they flower very, very lengthy, until late in autumn, until first frost, like ‘Princess Pink,’ and crispa, they’ve flower till the primary frost. [Above, C. heracleifolia ‘Pink Dwarf.’ Below, a variety of C. tangutica.]
Margaret: Properly, and you like the small-flowered ones, not only for their appeal and their magnificence, but in addition as a result of in contrast to most of the large-flower varieties—a lot of these are hybrids—and yours are sometimes species sorts or open-pollinated sorts that may be multiplied from seed. And it me, once we first met and we did the “New York Instances” story, that a lot of your small-flowered varieties that you just favor are Southeastern United States natives, like glaucophylla [photo, top of page], texensis, crispa, viorna, these lovely little creatures, and I feel they’re generally referred to as leather-based flowers. Is that proper?
Alla: Yeah.
Margaret: They’ve thick, little thick little petals, nearly.
Alla: Yeah, that is actually, so I’ve plenty of small-flowering species and hybrids as properly, and I actually desire them. I’ve massive flowers as properly, they usually’re included into my e-book, “Clematis Passports,” after all.
However small-flowered, they’re higher in a number of elements. To begin with, the flowers are small, however you have got only a sea and even an ocean of these flowers. For instance, Clematis songarica: It’s a stunner. And if you see it in flower, it fascinates, and it seems like an enormous, big, big wall, which consists fully with all these small flowers. So it’s completely magnificent.
So it impresses much more than massive flowers, and in addition big-flowered species or hybrids, largely hybrids, they’re very, very capricious; they want plenty of care, they usually endure from wilt when their vines begin to fade for unknown motive. It’s some micro organism. And I observed that it doesn’t matter what you do, so you should use even some fungicides, which isn’t really good to your well being and for nature, however nonetheless, it doesn’t assist. Properly, so that you’ll return to this drawback yearly with the large-flowered varieties. I learn a number of articles, for instance, an interview with Manfred Westfall from Germany. He has a really well-known nursery, and truly he advised that our local weather will not be appropriate for such hybrids, and that is the explanation why they endure of all these ailments.
And it’s actually troublesome to develop them within the backyard. Whereas small-flowered Clematis, they often develop very, very properly, completely properly; they’re extra disease-resistant. They usually offer you that great, wonderful flowering; properly, not massive flowers, however very, very considerable. And I feel this benefit is they only cowl every little thing.
Margaret: I bear in mind—this isn’t solely about Clematis—however I bear in mind in an e-mail as soon as I despatched you an image of one thing that was blooming in my backyard. I used to be simply saying that you just’re rising many Clematis from the Southeastern United States, native crops to the US. And I bear in mind sending you an image of one thing that was blooming in my backyard that I like, a specific this little Coryladis solida. And also you advised me that that’s a local spring wildflower in Ukraine, sure? So we’re rising one another’s crops [laughter].
Alla: Yeah, that is actually cool.
Margaret: I like that.
Alla: And it’s additionally very, superb to develop bell-shaped Clematis from seeds. That’s simply nice as a result of sure, there’s some inter-species variability; in addition they could make hybrids, pure hybrids, however they all the time are completely lovely. So all of the seedlings are very, very lovely. I’ve plenty of them. And really, I’ve already chosen some seedlings, which look so lovely, and I treasure them lots. So it’s very, very fascinating rising from seeds.
Margaret: And in your first e-book, “Clematis,” you clarify the steps in two strategies of rising from seed and in addition different strategies of propagation and so forth. You additionally stress in that e-book how essential it’s to present Clematis help from an early age. The crops, the vines, want help from an early age.
And I beloved if you speak about, as an example, one of many belongings you like to allow them to spill over after they’re greater, is like pine shrubs, pines and so forth. Different issues that you’ve them rising upon, you talked about a few of them are rising up into the timber, the outdated timber?
Alla: So I simply adore the pure view of the backyard, and my backyard is a really, very pure fashion. And my Clematis, particularly the Clematis which adores shady situations comparable to Atragene sorts, they’re winding in outdated apple timber, which remained after my great-grandfather. I treasure them lots. I’ve a number of of them. And with these Clematis, they appear particularly charming, I’d say. And in addition, I’ve an enormous Forsythia bush; it flowers and it’s lined throughout with the yellow, vivid yellow flowers. [Alla with an Atragene type of Clematis, above.]
Margaret: Oh, the Forsythia within the spring; proper, after all.
Alla: Yeah. Yeah. It’s very, very massive. It’s greater than me. It’s an enormous bush. And I planted Clematis heracleifolia ‘I Am Stanislaus’ simply close to with this bush, and it begins rising vines. Truly, it’s not a vining Clematis, but it surely has very, very lengthy stamps as much as 3, 4 meters non-vining. However he begins rising over that Forsythia bush. And in consequence in September, it begins flowering. And it appears as if the Forsythia bush flowers with blue flowers [laughter], it’s lined throughout. And everybody, visiting my backyard ask what sort of bush is that this? In order that they even can’t consider that that is Clematis, which lined everywhere in the big Forsythia bush. And I simply adore this combo. It really works yearly because of this concept this bush seems very, very ornamental two occasions, in spring and in autumn.
Margaret: Yeah, I like gold. Talking of gold, just like the Forsythia is blooms gold in spring, however I like gold foliage. And there’s one, I don’t know if there’s others, however there’s one Clematis alpina referred to as ‘Stolwijk Gold’ [above], it has gold foliage and I feel little purple flowers. And that’s a magnificence, too. Are there different ones with gold foliage, or the entire relaxation are inexperienced foliage?
Alla: There are already extra varieties with golden foliage. I noticed them within the nursery of Szczepan Marczynski. It is a very well-known Polish Clematis breeder. However in my backyard, I’ve solely the ‘Stolwjck Gold,’ however I’ve sown it a number of occasions and plenty of seedlings. In addition they inherit this gene, and they’re golden-leaved. And I fully agree with you as a result of foliage all the time provides extra appeal to the backyard. Flowers are there briefly, for months, for instance; there are perhaps a number of days of flowering, however nonetheless not from April until October. And the foliage, it stays declarative for a for much longer time period. So it’s essential for the backyard.
Margaret: I like the non-vining Clematis, the extra shrubby ones as properly. And notably talking of colourful foliage, there’s one which I’ve had for a lot of, a few years. It’s a Clematis recta. It’s a darkish, nearly blackish-purple leaf, one referred to as ‘Lime Shut.’ And I don’t know, perhaps it’s recta purpurea, I don’t know but it surely’s not too tall. I imply, it will get to be perhaps as tall as my shoulders or one thing if it’s very, very established. Typically it’s shorter, however I’ve it in with a help, and it type of cascades excessive of the help. And it’s simply that when it comes out of the bottom, it’s simply essentially the most lovely darkish leaves. After which it has a froth of white flowers in a while. And it’s simply very, very lovely.
Alla: Yeah, I fully agree with you. I’ve a range. Clematis recta ‘Velvet Evening,’ presumably it’s ‘Velvet Evening’ [below], it has these darkish leaves. It’s completely lovely with these white flowers. Completely lovely. And by the way in which, it has very particular seeds, like a seed per flower, and it seems very, very good.
Margaret: Oh, I didn’t know that. And talking of seeds, so that you promote seed for Clematis, and for what else? You’ve gotten different type of uncommon, particular, alternative crops—species peonies, as an example, I consider you additionally promote seeds for. Are there different issues which can be in your catalog that you just love and also you additionally promote the seeds for?
Alla: Yeah, species peonies is my massive love. I like them, by the way in which, as a result of all the ornamental foliage, their flowers are completely lovely. You’ll be able to see them in my weblog as a result of I’ve an enormous assortment. And it was very, very troublesome to gather this assortment as a result of they’re uncommon, however the foliage stays ornamental all through the season, they usually’re completely beautiful on the flower beds. So yeah, I promote seeds of species peonies, however I would not have a lot of them. And it’s additionally a really, very massive demand for them. And I want I had extra. And in addition, I promote seeds of Phlox paniculata. It’s a really, very talked-about flower right here in Ukraine. So everybody likes it.
Margaret: And one other native American flower [laughter].
Alla: Yeah, yeah, presumably. It’s completely lovely. They’re so secure, they usually flower for a really very long time. And the trendy varieties, they possess such wonderful hues, fairly often they’re bicolored, and they’re very simply grown from seeds, they usually hybridize simply. And the seedlings I’ve within the gardens, they’re so good. I simply adore rising them from seeds.
Margaret: And the Clematis, I feel, can take a while from seed. And you’ve got, as I stated, directions in your first e-book, “Clematis,” your first e-book about how to do this; the strategies to do this. Do the species peonies take as lengthy, or are these I get self-sowns from the species peonies in my backyard. They sow themselves round within the backyard. I get volunteers.
Alla: I even have plenty of self-seedlings, as a result of although I gather seeds on daily basis, it’s unimaginable to gather each seed. And properly, regardless of the way you gather, a number of seeds will fall all the way down to the bottom and can sprout. They take time. So if you happen to sow them naturally, you’ll need two years, as a result of they sprout solely on the second spring. They want two winters; they want two-stage stratification. However properly, really right here in my backyard, I sow them yearly, as a result of a part of the seeds I sow in my backyard are to be able to improve the variety of crops, I’ve to supply extra seeds.
And yearly I’ve crops that already begin flowering, and the crops which simply sprouted. And it’s like a nonstop course of. And I’m not ready for these explicit seeds to sprout. So I simply sow them. However I feel it’s peculiar. It’s about each gardener. So that you simply preserve planting one thing, preserve sowing one thing yearly, and then you definitely benefit from the outcomes. On the one hand, it’s two years, however however, they fly very, in a short time, and you don’t discover that. However if you see the outcome, it’s completely nice.
Margaret: And I simply questioned, I questioned if an individual has greater than 140 of a phenomenal plant referred to as Clematis, can she have a favourite? [Laughter.] Is there a favourite?
Alla: It’s a really, very, very troublesome query for me, as a result of they’re all my favorites. However certainly one of my favorites is Clematis songarica ‘Sundance’ [above]. And since it’s an enormous plant with an ocean of flowers, and it has essentially the most lovely seedheads of all of the Clematis I’ve in my backyard. They’re simply magnificent. They usually’re nice in varied preparations, and it has a number of phases of decor. And by the way in which, if you don’t lower it down, it’ll be ornamental for the entire winter as a result of seedheads it has. So I’ll present images. It’s completely beautiful.
Margaret: Properly, I’m all the time glad to attach with you, and I consider you on a regular basis. And as I stated, folks can discover you on Instagram and in your web site, and discover your seeds and discover your two e-books and so forth. So thanks for being in contact, and for making time.
Alla: Thanks a lot. It was a pleasure to talk to you.
(All images from All Olkhovska, used with permission.)
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