WE’RE GOING TO do some pruning, however not the identical previous straight-forward form. As a substitute we’re going to speak topiary, and its transformative powers—not simply on the plant that’s the topic that’s getting clipped, or on the backyard that the residing sculpture will finally adorn, however doubtlessly on the creator, too. Topiary artist Mike Gibson and I talked in regards to the horticulture and the artistry in what he does, and likewise in regards to the therapeutic properties of creating topiary.
Mike Gibson has been participating with crops since his childhood in Ohio. Beginning in late 2021, he contributed to the restoration of Pearl Fryar’s famed topiary creations on the Pearl Fryar Topiary Backyard in South Carolina. Mike now lives in Columbia, S.C., the place he operates Gibson Works LLC. He was one of many consultants profiled in Amy Stewart’s 2024 e book “The Tree Collectors,” has been featured on the HGTV present “Clipped,” and is a well-liked lecturer and instructor of all issues topiary.
Learn alongside as you hearken to the June 23, 2025 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You may subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
speaking topiary, with mike gibson
Obtain file | Play in new window | |
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify
Margaret Roach: Welcome, Mike. I’m so glad to satisfy you lastly.
Mike Gibson: Hello. Thanks for having me. It’s fairly the pleasure.
Margaret: Sure. I’ve identified about your work for a variety of years, and so it’s nice to lastly join. And also you’re not at all new to this topic [laughter]. You’ve been at this for some time, huh?
Mike: Yeah, it It’s been about 31 years. I do know that sounds loopy, but-
Margaret: However who’s counting, proper?
Mike: Who’s counting, proper; 31 and counting. However yeah, I began younger round 7 years previous, and I do know that sounds actually wild to folks like, oh yeah, proper. However no, my mother and father had been creatives, and my father was an artist and taught me find out how to keep the already good geometric shapes he had across the yard. And I sort of simply by no means stopped slicing up bushes and shrubs since. I simply acquired a bit bit extra artistic, that’s all.
Margaret: So that you grew up in Ohio, now you’re in South Carolina. I used to be like, I imply, I virtually burst out laughing after I heard that you just had been ambidextrous. What a good suggestion for somebody who needs to do topiary [laughter].
Mike: And I really feel like I believed everybody was ambidextrous. I didn’t suppose it was a hidden expertise till I began realizing like, “Oh, nobody else is utilizing each of their fingers to create and do issues.” So I suppose it’s a hidden reward. Received to thank the Creator for that one, as a result of it turns out to be useful.
Margaret: Yeah. Wonderful. And also you’re largely in your topiary abilities. I imply, has this been one thing that you just’ve simply type of realized and taught your self or-?
Mike: Yeah, simply been instructing myself through the years; trial and error at a younger age. As I acquired older, simply saved experimenting and studying about completely different topiary artists all over the world and completely different strategies, and sort of simply been included into my very own fashion through the years.
Margaret: In your web site homepage, in the beginning of a bit type of biographical part of textual content, it describes you as, and I’ll quote, “an artist centered on sacred geometry and topiary.” And the sacred geometry half actually stopped me. It caught my consideration and I used to be like, “Ooh, I have to ask about that.” So inform me about sacred geometry.
Mike: Sacred geometry is simply this harmonious design of the universe, that all the pieces is linked, proper? And I do a number of my creations and topiary sculptures primarily based off of a number of the rules of sacred geometry, just like the Fibonacci sequence, which is mainly the golden ratio, the golden spiral. So once you consider a nautilus shell or any kind of spiral within the universe, it’s all primarily based off of this sequence known as the Fibonacci sequence. So I incorporate that into my strategies.
It’s really one of many 5 strategies to the Gibson Methodology for artistic pruning that I take advantage of. And sacred geometry is one in all them. You might have storytelling, sacred geometry, Nikawi (which is a Japanese-style pruning), directional trimming, which is essential, and phantasm topiary. And to create all these collectively creates this phantasm the place I can disguise issues inside from completely different views. So yeah, sacred geometry is admittedly essential to the strategies of what I do.
I imagine it’s what units me apart from a number of different topiary artists on this planet, as a result of it permits the creations to only actually circulate, however be adventurous. Assume Dr. Seuss-wise; it may actually suppose exterior of the field and create issues actually cool.
Beginning earlier and younger, I acquired uninterested in doing simply common geometric shapes, which is an artwork in itself, however I puzzled what else is on the market, what else can I do? And I stumbled throughout a e book of sacred geometry and began deep-diving into it, going to the library and taking all these completely different books on sacred geometry and studying about these completely different shapes, and the lotus flower and dodecahedrons and icosahedrons and completely different polygonal shapes. And that helped open my thoughts to the chances of what you are able to do with topiary. And the chances are limitless.
Margaret: Nicely, like I stated, it actually caught my consideration as a result of the way in which I describe my strategy to horticulture, apart from barely insane [laughter], is “horticultural how-to and woo-woo.” So a fusion of the type of non secular connection, the intimacy, and the technical. I have to know among the primary technical stuff, yeah; find out how to do one thing. However I’ve acquired to additionally really feel it. I’ve acquired to hook up with it. I’ve acquired to see it, as you stated, all these massive connections and the way all the pieces suits collectively intimately. The complexity, but in addition, wow; I’ve acquired to see the wow.
Mike: Proper. You bought to have the wow issue. And that’s what I add. Yeah, I acquired uninterested in straight strains and tight curves is admittedly nice, nevertheless it’s not wowing anyone.
You need to see one thing wow; you need one thing wonky, you wished whimsical that’s going to catch viewer’s eyes and pedestrian’s eyes to show their head sideways and say, “What am I taking a look at?” And that’s what I need. I need to stop folks of their tracks and have them surprise. I need that wow issue, that surprise issue, that will get folks to need to suppose a bit bit deeper, and mirror, and attempt to perceive what they’re taking a look at.
And you might even see a coronary heart, you might even see an embrace, you might even see the letters love. It simply relies upon out of your perspective of the place you’re standing at. And that’s the great thing about it. It’s this trompe-l’oeil phantasm, the place I can deceive the attention by actually cultivating a form from all angles, and all the pieces is appreciated from the fitting vantage level the place I can disguise one thing.
It’s like for those who stand on this circle this at 5 o’clock within the afternoon at this angle, you’re going to see this image inside. You may solely see it at 5 o’clock when the solar’s beginning to set, proper at this angle. You’re solely going to see it proper there. And that’s one thing that I incorporate into my fashion of doing topiary.
Margaret: And the geometry of your work is tough for me to explain. It’s not similar to customary lollipops, a ball atop a trunk, or cubes and obelisks. And there are spirals, however even these are wild.
By the way in which. I like that your daughter’s identify is Paisley. I puzzled if that comes from the topiary [laughter].
Mike: That comes from the topiary, sure.
Margaret: Yeah, I wager. I like that.
Mike: I’ve a love for paisley. I acquired married in a paisley go well with.
Margaret: I’m completely loopy for them. I’ve jewellery that’s within the form of paisleys, brooches, and all types of paisley issues.
Mike: I’m carrying a paisley shirt proper now [laughter].
Margaret: Oh boy. Nice minds suppose alike. However one instance, there’s this type of lengthy, not-too-tall hedge, and I take advantage of that “hedge” very loosely, a topiary [above] that you just created in a memorial park in South Carolina for Dr. Ronald E. McNair. He was the second black American astronaut to enter house.
Mike: Oh, the Different Worldly. Sure.
Margaret: Solely a few years after he achieved that distinction, he was one of many seven astronauts who had been killed throughout the failed launch of the Challenger house shuttle in 1986. So this can be a memorial to him. And this creation that you just’ve finished, it doesn’t seem like a hedge with rectalinear sides or something. It’s like, whoa. And in order that’s one other one the place it’s like a complete completely different dimension. You interpreted it utterly in another way. And what’s the angle there?
Mike: Yeah, I used to be going to say I’d love to present a bit bit extra perception on that. Simply, I imply, your listeners can search for Dr. Ronald E. McNair. He’s from Lake Metropolis, S.C., a very nice, nice genius and vivid thoughts that we had been lucky to have on this planet. I imply, he did a number of actually nice analysis on laser know-how, did some actually nice issues. So each topiary I do has a narrative to it. All of them must have this narrative about it.
So doing my analysis and studying about him and the issues that he was capable of accomplish, it made me surprise, alright, properly, I really feel that his soul didn’t simply deplete, vitality stop to exist. So when he handed away on the Challenger, what occurred? I think about that his soul, his vitality, his spirit continued to roam the cosmos. And what I created was from his perspective within the cosmos. That is what he sees: gaseous clouds, nebula all forming collectively. And the title of this piece is known as Different Worldly.
I’m utilizing Ilex vomitoria, that’s Yaupon holly, the widespread identify. And you may simply sculpt it like stone. You could possibly achieve this a lot with it. It’s in all probability my favourite shrub to make use of. This was actually thrilling to be commissioned by Moore Farms Botanic Backyard to have the ability to create this stunning creation.
And that’s sort of what I wished to do. So there’s some spirals in there. There’s a hidden G for Gibson. I sort of throw a signature on a few of my work right here and there to let folks know that it’s hidden in there. Generally you don’t see it instantly. It’s important to discover the G. The place’s the G? However there’s a saxophone in there. There’s hearts. He performed the saxophone.
Margaret: He was going to play the saxophone in house.
Mike: Sure, to make the primary recorded saxophone album. Sure. He was going to make an album up there, or a track, so it was going to be actually nice. Sadly, he didn’t have the chance, however I wished to align the saxophone on the proper perspective.
So that is his memorial web site; it’s really his burial floor there, and there’s a statue of him. So once you’re in entrance of the place the saxophone is, it strains up completely with the statue that’s throughout the car parking zone, so it matches up with it. So it’s important to stand in the fitting angle after which you possibly can see the saxophone as you’re wanting outwards to the statue of Dr. Ronald E. McNair.
So I known as it Different Worldly as a result of it was simply one thing that you may’t fairly grasp, and you may’t fairly perceive what you’re taking a look at; there’s a number of curves and spinnings and opening areas and vantage factors and unfavorable house. And that’s all created very purposefully. It took a number of time, in all probability took me perhaps 30 hours to create that piece.
Margaret: And I need to speak about creating items, and visualizing what they’re going to be. And after we strategy pruning of any form—and I’d simply say I’d anticipate, particularly if the top purpose was extra-creative and creative, not simply to take out useless, broken and diseased stuff with primary pruning—we have now to know the residing plant materials we’re working with. The when and the place and the way far in we are able to go, and type of the rules of pruning it. And I imply, you possibly can’t minimize as far again into limb of a pine, I suppose, as you possibly can into, such as you simply stated, the Ilex vomitoria, the Yaupon holly. Completely different crops reply in another way.
So that you as this artist, you’re not simply conceiving the eventual factor, the sculpture that you just need to make, however it’s important to decide the fitting plant, and it’s important to understand how that plant responds to the place and once you minimize, and oh my goodness, it’s like this 3-D chess, this entire…It’s superb.
Mike: You bought to suppose, acquired to suppose 5, 10, 15 years forward of time [laughter].
Margaret: Yeah, I don’t get it. I imply, my mind doesn’t work that manner. I don’t have that a part of the mind. After which there’s the remedy half, which I talked about a bit bit within the introduction. And so the place does that slot in? [Above, a topiary therapy workshop.]
Mike: Rising up in Youngstown, Ohio, I grew up in a really tough neighborhood on the south aspect. And Youngstown is a really stunning place, however the place I grew up was actually attention-grabbing.
And one factor that helped me survive was working within the yard; working within the panorama. It was one thing that saved me centered. I noticed how calming it was. I used to must work within the yard as a punishment: “Go rake the leaves, go pull leaves.” [Laughter.] However after some time, it was one thing that turned very calm. Even when my father, my mother and father, noticed that I used to be upset or one thing, they’d inform me to go exterior, be in nature; go exterior and mow the grass, go minimize one thing. And I discovered it to be so stress-free.
So years later, as soon as I’d say COVID hit, that is when the remedy began actually popping out extra, as a result of I began realizing, properly, everyone is coping with all of the stress from COVID. And the lingering results of that, even nonetheless as we speak, 5 years now later, continues to be affecting us. However I understand, properly, I’m very joyful on a regular basis; I’m very calm. Sure, it’s unusual world that it’s important to navigate in now, nevertheless it’s like, man, I’m so joyful and why am I joyful? As a result of I do topiary on daily basis.
I’m pruning, I’m creating, I’m having that sense of accomplishment from with the ability to stand again and say, “Wow, I created that.” Now one thing my father instilled in us: I’ve three older sisters, so he instilled that into my siblings and I that after we did the yard as a household, we’d stand again on the curb and have a look at what we did. Look how stunning our property is now.
And we grew up within the ‘hood. Folks didn’t do their lawns, they weren’t slicing their grass till I went door to door and began slicing their grass and slicing their bushes. However up till then, no person was doing it. We had been one of many few that basically had a pleasant panorama. My mother was into the flowers. My sisters had been doing that. We’d mulch; we all the time had pink mulch. It was simply a number of issues and elements with that.
So after COVID hit, I noticed, wow, I have to unfold this pleasure to others. So I began doing topiary-therapy workshops, and I began instructing others across the nation find out how to not solely create a topiary, one thing small like a 2-foot Thuja occidentalis, like an ‘Emerald Inexperienced’ Arborvitae. Simply one thing that’s upright that’s solely about 2 toes, 3 toes tall, nothing too massive.
And we might create a easy form, perhaps a fast spiral, or pompoms, and I’d give them the instruments they should go forth and proceed this journey of making. And it’s so therapeutic. It’s a stress-reliever. It’s one thing about clipping.
There’s so many scientific research and psychological research in regards to the connection between nature and efficient pruning, and the way that impacts us as human beings. So there’s horticultural remedy, and I began studying extra about that and getting all these books on.
I’m so self-taught in so many alternative areas, however I felt that I wanted some extra data, and I stumbled throughout therapeutic horticulture. And there’s a course at North Carolina State College and North Carolina Botanic Backyard has a joint course. I took this course over the previous yr and a half, and now I’ve my certificates in therapeutic horticulture. So I’m a THP, as we’d say, therapeutic horticultural practitioner. So I can add that to the top of my identify now. It’s not PhD, however THP works simply as properly.
And now I journey the nation, primarily at botanic gardens and artwork museums, and I conduct these topiary-therapy workshops and join folks again with nature and use it as a catalyst to heal folks from their traumas, their stress, no matter you’re going by means of. It will possibly heal and assist you to in so many alternative methods.
I really feel like topiary is a game-changer, as a result of I additionally really feel that the extra topiary in any given house produces extra love and extra peace. So go on the market and clip some topiary, folks, find out about it, perceive it, and it may change your life. [Below, some of Gibson’s work at the South Carolina State Museum.]
Margaret: So that you stated there’s a specific Thuja that you’d say is challenge #1 for learners; I neglect what one you stated. You simply talked about a simple one to get began with to make a easy form.
Mike: Yeah. I really feel like a Thuja occidentalis ‘Emerald Inexperienced’ Arborvitae is; it grows naturally in a spiral type. And I train people who and so they’re like, “What do you imply I don’t see it?” Nicely, you’ll begin to see that there’s extra progress both ranging from the underside left or the underside. And when you discover this, that there’s extra progress heavier on one aspect, and you may see it regularly going round. When you can comply with the sample, there’s a sample. That’s that sacred geometry. There’s a sample in all the pieces, in each plant. However it’s important to look, you actually must look.
And you then begin noticing the branching and also you say, “Oh, I see the branching is predominantly on the left and it goes left to proper.” And now you can begin slicing and pruning. A terrific tip I inform folks is that you just need to transfer the shrub and tilt it barely at an angle. So consider a 45-degree angle that you just’re tipping this pot away from you and also you’re simply slicing away from your self and persevering with this spiral going round, and also you’re simply transferring the pot. You don’t essentially have to maneuver your self. You need to keep current, you need to keep nonetheless. And that is one thing that’s going that will help you in so many alternative methods. Sure.
Margaret: I do know you’re doing a brand new challenge in a park close to you, I believe proper now, and also you labored with Pearl Fryar at his fantastic backyard, however locations the place folks may go to see… Type of vacation spot topiary visiting on this nation, not less than any locations that’s like, some highlights. [Above, Mike with Pearl Fryar; below, a topiary at the Fryar garden.]
Mike: Yeah, there’s some stunning locations across the nation I had the pleasure of working with. When you make your manner over to the Cummer Museum and gardens down in Jacksonville, Fla., and their English backyard, they’ve a group of junipers that is known as resiliency. All of them are formed within the letter C for Cummer, Ninah Cummer. So there are Cs and completely different views from each vantage level. So regardless of how tall, how small, the place you’re at within the backyard, for those who occur to look over within the English backyard and have a look at one in all these junipers, you will notice the letter C. Yeah. In order that’s just like the phantasm topiary.
There’s some sculptural work I’ve finished in Crystal Bridges Museum of American Artwork in Bentonville, Ark. That’s Alice Walton’s, the richest lady on this planet and an inheritor to Walmart’s artwork museum. Yeah. So I’ve finished some work on the market. I’ve finished, oh man, let’s see. I’ve labored in Salt Lake Metropolis in Purple Butte Botanic Backyard, there’s some work-
Margaret: Oh, that’s fantastic.
Mike: Oh, I like Purple Butte. It’s a lovely backyard. One among my favorites. Oh, it’s simply nestled into the mountains. It’s a lovely house. Cleveland Botanical Backyard. I’m making an attempt to suppose; I’ve created over 700 topiaries around-
Margaret: Non, no; I simply wished to say just a few. That’s cool.
Mike: There’s just a few. There’s Fort Price Botanic Backyard. I created some topiary down there in Texas. So there’s some topiary round.
Margaret: So only a few.
Mike: And there’ll be many extra. And the explanation why I’m doing the topiary-therapy workshops, and why I do the workshops, is I can’t create topiary in every single place. But when I can train others find out how to do it, they will then go of their neighborhoods, create topiary, and that may encourage their neighbors to beautify their areas. After which they’ll beautify and have extra topiary of their group, which can create extra loving and peaceable cities.
See this domino ripple impact that may occur from there. So if I can maintain these workshops all around the world, I can train increasingly folks about topiary and its therapeutic advantages, and so they will help beautify this world and this planet for future generations.
Margaret: Type of keep centered on one thing optimistic [laughter]. Yeah.
Mike: And I’d say one different place that you may see topiary is my very own topiary backyard I’ve been engaged on. Oh yeah. I had the pleasure of profitable the Sowing Excellence Award from the Thought Heart for Public Gardens, the A.P.G.A., which is the American Public Backyard Affiliation and the U.S. Botanic Backyard. They awarded 19 recipients final yr. And I used to be one of many inaugural recipients for the Sowing Excellence Award to assist fund a challenge.
And I created a sensory therapeutic kids’s backyard within the coronary heart of Columbia, S.C., at Edisto Discovery Park. I sort of took over this park and revamped it. And I’m constructing an Ilex assortment. I desire a plant assortment there, so I used hollies for these, and I need 330 completely different cultivars of hollies, and there’s over 1,000. So there’s lots to select from, however I simply need 330 of them to pay homage again to my space code again dwelling, to 330.
And the realm code for Columbia is 803, so that may be lots [laughter]. There could also be 803 topiaries at this house. However I’ve been constructing this topiary backyard since final yr and been engaged on it fairly steadily. And there’s topiary everywhere. And I’m going to maintain planting and proceed to domesticate this house the place folks inside this neighborhood and from all around the world can come go to and see an excellent instance of what the chances of what topiary will be.
Margaret: Nicely, I’ve been so joyful to talk to you, Mike Gibson; thanks for making time as we speak.
Mike: Oh, thanks for having me. It’s such a fairly pleasure. I may speak about topiary all day, so thanks for having me.
(All pictures courtesy of Mike Gibson; used with permission.)
favor the podcast model of the present?
MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its fifteenth yr in March 2024. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention regionally within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Jap, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the June 23, 2025 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You may subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
