THE MORE THAT I SEE pictures of gravel gardens and the extra that I find out about this gardening model, which apart from its distinctive aesthetic attraction guarantees to be water-wise and weed-suppressing, the extra I need to give it a strive. So I used to be completely happy to get an early copy of “The Gravel Backyard,” a e-book that’s due out in June, and be handled to digital walks by means of 20 such landscapes in a variety of sizes and kinds.
The e-book’s co-author, Jeff Epping, who has been making gravel gardens for purchasers since 2008 and transformed his personal Wisconsin entrance yard from garden to gravel in 2017 is right here to speak about what sorts of vegetation work in these resilient gardens and supply us with some design inspiration, too.
Jeff is a longtime horticulturist and backyard designer who for 28 years was director of horticulture at Olbrich Botanical Gardens in Madison, Wisc. Jeff’s upcoming e-book is named “The Gravel Backyard: Visionary Drought-Defying Naturalistic Designs” (affiliate hyperlink), written in collaboration with Teresa Woodard. It takes us across the nation and to the UK and Germany, too, to take a look at how numerous backyard makers have interpreted the strategy of gravel gardening, and I’m so glad to welcome him again to this system.
Plus: Remark within the field close to the underside of the web page for an opportunity to win a duplicate of “The Gravel Backyard.”
Learn alongside as you hearken to the Might 18, 2026 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant beneath. You may subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
gravel-gardening potentialities, with jeff epping
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Margaret Roach: Welcome again; good to have you ever all the way in which from Wisconsin [laughter].
Jeff Epping: All the way in which from Wisconsin, the place someday it’s 90 and the following day it’s frost warnings.
Margaret: Oh, you have to dwell right here [laughter].
Jeff: Yeah. Proper.
Margaret: Oh my goodness. Properly, congratulations on the e-book. I’ve been having fun with it as a result of as I stated within the introduction, it’s been sort of making me suppose, “Huh, possibly I might try this over right here or over right here,” as a result of not all gravel gardens are created equal. There’s quite a lot of potentialities. And all of us hear currently about garden options and, “Oh, put a meadow in your entrance yard” and so forth, however you place a gravel backyard in yours [laughter] [photo below]. So it may be an ecological answer, too, even a garden various, sure?
Jeff: Yeah, completely. I at all times say {that a} garden house might be the most effective place for a gravel backyard as a result of they do properly in full solar the place the most effective lawns do as properly. And we’ve a lot garden that there’s at all times a chance for a gravel backyard. And yeah, it could begin out as small as you need. I imply, 3 by 3 or actually, actually massive, like a 3-acre gravel backyard that we cowl within the e-book at Epic Techniques.
So the great thing about them is that they’re so local weather resilient and at the moment of this loopy local weather change and water being so valuable and all of us needing to consider how we make the most of that, now’s the time I believe for us to consider all various kinds of drought-tolerant gardens.
And I do design meadows as you talked about, however I’ve by no means labored with, designed, maintained a backyard that’s been simpler to keep up and extra in tune with mom nature and what mom nature gives than gravel gardens. And that’s actually has one thing I simply began out pondering, “Oh, that is sort of cool,” to love, “Wow, that is actually one thing that we must be selling.” So-
Margaret: So right here we’re. [Laughter.]
Jeff: Proper. I wrote a e-book, which I by no means thought I’d do.
Margaret: And within the new e-book you say, “Principally gravel gardening is a method by which deep-rooted drought tolerant perennials are planted in a couple of 6-inch layer of gravel that suppresses weeds and conserves water.”
In order that’s the only description. About 4 years in the past once you and I collaborated on a “New York Occasions” backyard column, and we additionally did a podcast collectively, we talked in regards to the how-to of creating a gravel backyard, the place folks can get a few of the how-to inspiration. However I needed to speak immediately about what you have been simply hinting at. There’s such a variety of potentialities each in scale and in model. And it’s not simply that form of … I don’t know, I believe at first I believed, “Oh, you have to imply a backyard of alpine vegetation” or one thing once you say gravel backyard, however that’s not it.
Jeff: I believe that’s what folks consider is a rock backyard, an alpine backyard, however it’s not likely that in any respect.
Margaret: And to indicate us that it’s not, you’re taking us to those 20 gardens within the U.S. and elsewhere, and we might even begin simply with a small trough, couldn’t we, a trough backyard? I believe there are trough gardens within the e-book.
Jeff: Sure, completely, as small as a trough. So if you happen to’re in an residence or a rental or one thing and also you simply need to give the idea a strive, you could possibly do one thing like that. Or we even transformed a considerably derelict, very leaky, three-tiered fountain that the Metropolis of Madison water utility was trying to hopefully do one thing with. In any other case, they have been going to jackhammer it out, which is quite a lot of work and quite a lot of power. And they also known as me and we created this magnificent, I believe, gravel backyard. It’s within the e-book; you could possibly be the choose. Nevertheless it’s solely 18 inches deep. And once you put 5 inches of gravel, that doesn’t offer you quite a lot of soil. However I’ll be trustworthy with you, it’s one of many best gravel gardens I’ve labored with personally. And naturally within the e-book, such as you say, we characteristic 20 and it’s actually cool to see what all people’s doing.
And we don’t all do it precisely the identical approach both, however the fundamental parts are there, the gravel being sometimes a number of inches, if not even virtually a foot deep like Sean Conway’s backyard in Rhode Island. So yeah, it’s actually quite a lot of enjoyable. And like I say, when you get them established—it’s work upfront, don’t get me flawed, as a result of it’s important to do just a few various things and have that gravel introduced in and create that—however when you try this, then you definitely’re on cruise management for the longer term [laughter].
Margaret: Proper. So that you simply talked about Sean Conway in Rhode Island. And so there’s that stereotype gravel backyard, we expect it’s synonymous possibly with alpine-ish trying or rock backyard trying, however then there’s somebody like Sean Conway in Rhode Island within the e-book, and he incorporates previously clipped hornbeam. I don’t know, they’re virtually like topiaries [above]. They’re like these clipped, barrel-shaped topiarish form of issues on prime of the trunk, up on the trunk—elevated, form of floating—and clipped purple beech hedge. And so it’s not simply that different stereotype. So I believed possibly we might simply discuss a few of the extremes and examples. I imply, some are very romantic trying, not stark in any respect, not harsh in any respect.
Jeff: That’s proper. Yeah. And Sean’s backyard prior was a vegetable backyard, and it was really a set for the gardening present that he used to have. And when the present ran its course and so they have been accomplished, he stated, “I simply can’t preserve this big vegetable backyard anymore.” And he was impressed by the work of Lisa Roper at Chanticleer, who we featured within the e-book as properly.
Margaret: Fantastic, fantastic gravel backyard [a section of it is pictured at the top of the page].
Jeff: Oh, it’s superb, proper? And he stated, “I’m going to do that. ” So he simply tried a bit nook, and was so amazed on the outcomes that he took it to a different degree. And he has these stunning clipped beech hedge and such as you talked about, the hornbeams, yeah, and really, very clear edging and such. So quite a lot of instances folks have, and this, however have a bit little bit of a tough time accepting these naturalistic-style gardens. And so these cues for care, as they are saying, assist folks settle for the wildness to the backyard. And that’s repeated in many of the gardens that we {photograph} for the e-book, which is fairly neat.
Margaret: So to have some ingredient that claims “this can be a backyard, somebody is sustaining this, somebody has put their touches on it,” so to talk, one thing like his clipped hedges and his form of topiary-ish hornbeams and so forth that warn you to it’s not only a wild house.
Jeff: Precisely, precisely. And Kelly Norris created a stupendous backyard in Ames, Iowa, for Ana McCracken. And Ana needed form of an ode to the prairie, so Kelly being the unbelievable designer that he’s, created such a backyard. Largely native perennial vegetation and really, very wild in nature. However once more, he used ‘Taylor’ junipers, our native Juniperus virginiana. And ‘Taylor,’ although, may be very formal trying: central chief, very upright. It appears to be like prefer it’s clipped, however it actually isn’t. And he used these together with some paintings within the backyard and such and pulled it off superbly. It’s such a stunning backyard.
And Joan Nassauer is the professor of panorama structure on the College of Michigan who coined this time period, cues for care, or messy ecosystems orderly body. So such as you say, a hedge round one thing or perhaps a properly edged garden round a extra wild panorama actually helps folks.
Margaret: It actually does. And it may be so simple as a really giant vessel or one thing, like a really, very, very giant virtually sculptural pot or one thing on axis someplace that pulls your eye. I imply, it form of modifications the entire thing from a wild house to, oh, somebody’s been right here and thought this by means of. [Above, part of Andrew Bunting’s Pennsylvania gravel garden.]
Jeff: Precisely, precisely. And oftentimes they’ve sculpture within the backyard at Reiman Gardens in Ames as properly that we characteristic, they’ve some very nice sculptures in there. Yeah, it varies, however it reveals that anyone is paying consideration. Any individual’s caring for that backyard.
Margaret: At Olbrich the place you labored for a few years, the botanical gardens, there are 4 gravel gardens, I believe. And one is sort of a 5,000-square-foot entry backyard and one is like, at first after I appeared on the image within the e-book, it’s like an extended border, alongside a path, and the trail isn’t even I believe gravel, possibly like a mulch-y sort of path or a mud path, however an extended, lengthy, lengthy border. It virtually appears to be like like the dimensions of a border the place you do the old-style form of bedding-out, and I believe it used to possibly have annuals in it or one thing annually and be modified over as a show ingredient. And now it’s this lengthy, lengthy, lengthy perennial border, however it’s a gravel backyard.
Jeff: Yeah. And it’s entrance and heart. It’s proper there alongside the primary highway that takes you by the backyard. And also you’re proper, after I first began at Olbrich, it was at all times annuals. And it was stunning, however there’s quite a lot of power that goes into such a giant border like that.
And so we did two issues. There was a giant garden panel, a bluegrass turf, and we transformed that to a prairie dropseed meadow and primarily inexperienced, however then we added extra shade to it over time. After which we modified that massive annual border right into a gravel backyard and it actually has been profitable.
And I actually needed to have it entrance and heart so that folks might see that there’s different potentialities as they have been driving by apart from garden, garden and extra garden, proper?
After which we took it to the following degree with the doorway backyard that’s proper there on the principal entrance to Olbrich. And that once more was a really ’70s panorama with daylilies and pachysandra and all kinds of the frequent issues. And we blew it up and put in a giant, massive previous gravel backyard and confirmed that that is what we’re making an attempt to do at Olbrich, making an attempt to be extra environmentally pleasant. And so it’s an important entrance to the remainder of the backyard.
Margaret: So a few instances you’ve talked about prairie vegetation, a palette of vegetation being prairie-oriented or no matter and grasses and forbs, flowering perennials, and so forth [like on the book cover, above]. And so once more, it’s not simply all “rock backyard vegetation” [laughter]. There’s a variety of vegetation represented within the gardens on this e-book, however prairie vegetation do properly and I suppose that’s as a result of they’re drought-tolerant. And that little definition that I learn from the e-book earlier on that one of many form of characterizations is that it’s “by which deep-rooted, drought-tolerant perennials are planted.” We’re on the lookout for issues which can be tolerant of drought and root themselves in deeply, sure?
Jeff: Yeah, as a result of once more, we’ve that thick layer of gravel. I experimented with all kinds of various vegetation after I first began doing this. And although there are quite a lot of drought-tolerant perennials, they don’t essentially have deep root methods. So like most of the alpine vegetation, they’ve wide-spreading root methods, or they’re simply good at rooting in and sustaining with a shallow root system. And so I attempted issues like creeping sedums, which you suppose, “Oh, sedums, they’re essentially the most drought tolerant of any perennial.” And all of the creeping sorts pale away inside three years, as a result of they couldn’t get roots down deep sufficient.
So we’re vegetation which have a deeper root system. And sure, the prairie vegetation are the celebrities, and there’s many, a lot of those who work completely, although there’s moist prairies too, so these species don’t. However issues like calamint, the non-seeding calamint, Calamintha nepeta subsp. nepeta or the cultivar known as ‘Montrose White,’ tremendous drought-tolerant and only a nice perennial for the gravel backyard.
Whereas, Margaret, I at all times consider Nepeta or catmint as being super-drought tolerant, proper? And so it’s, however not in a gravel backyard. It doesn’t root deep sufficient. And so I discovered quickly after planting a lot of them [laughter] that they only didn’t final. So I’ve made quite a lot of errors alongside the way in which, however I’ve additionally discovered what works and what doesn’t.
And the sweetness with the e-book was we noticed vegetation out of our zone as a result of we traveled to the East Coast, we even went all the way down to Texas to see the work of Jared Barnes, Dr. Jared. And so these vegetation labored extraordinarily properly, however not hardy sufficient for us in Wisconsin. So yeah, it was enjoyable to see. And the palette is fairly huge really of what you would possibly have the ability to use for certain.
Margaret: There have been bulbs in quite a lot of footage within the e-book, and to allow them to root in deep sufficient? I imply, they’re planted beneath the gravel; the bulb itself is positioned decrease in. And so then the roots can get all the way down to the subsoil or no matter we name it beneath the gravel, I suppose, as a result of bulbs appear to indicate up in quite a lot of locations.
Jeff: So in every of the chapters, we characteristic one thing distinctive about that backyard. And the backyard we talked principally about bulbs was Chanticleer, as a result of Lisa Roper has been doing incredible work with bulbs [above; photo by Lisa Roper]. And most of the bulbs that we use in our gardens are literally native to rocky, mountainous areas like Turkey and such. And once we put them in our wealthy organic-y soils, quite a lot of them don’t final, as a result of it’s too moist once they’re dormant and so they get botrytis and different ailments that they rot off.
However within the gravel backyard, we’re not watering to any diploma after it’s established, or in any respect. And the bulbs like it, as a result of they’re simply sitting there baking in that soil beneath. I shouldn’t say baking, they’re not sizzling, however they’re dry, and that’s what they like. They usually come again yr after yr. A number of the species tulips are simply completely attractive, however daffodils work and all of the bulbs that we’ve tried and I’ve seen within the gardens that not solely we photographed, however I’ve seen… As a result of we photographed in the course of the rising season primarily, so Lisa was sort sufficient to share pictures. She’s a superb photographer of her backyard within the spring.
Margaret: She has alliums, I believe, in some spots and plenty of different issues.
Jeff: Yeah. Allium, Chionodoxa work properly, like I say, all of the completely different daffodils. Tulips for me at residence, not so good, not as a result of they’re not well-adapted; it’s as a result of the rabbits love them [laughter].
Margaret: Oh, the bane of my existence.
Jeff: You, me and quite a lot of different gardeners. However anyway, they’re superb. And likewise, you talked about alliums, and naturally there’s the perennial alliums like ‘Summer time Magnificence’ and ‘Millennium’ and that group, which do nice in gravel gardens. However there’s additionally the large ball-shaped alliums that come up after which go dormant like ‘Purple sensation.’ And Adam Glas at Swarthmore School has a incredible show of ‘Purple Sensation’ alliums of their roundabout [above; photo by Lisa Roper], which is a enjoyable software for a gravel backyard.
Margaret: Yeah, no, in order that was fascinating as a result of once more, it’s not simply the vegetation you would possibly suppose it’s a wider palette. So what about a few of the … I consider herbs as liking good drainage, so to talk, however possibly their roots aren’t going to go deep sufficient, so most likely they wouldn’t be-
Jeff: A number of them wouldn’t be. Like lavender does properly.
Margaret: Oh, O.Ok.
Jeff: Yeah. Now for us, it’s a ltitle sensitive as a result of we’re a bit farther north, however there’s quite a lot of new cultivars on the market now that we’re experimenting with. However once more, they prefer it dry and they also do properly. I’m certain if I used to be heat sufficient, rosemary would do fairly properly. Right here, I can use the decorative oregano like ‘Herrenhausen,’ or I believe it interprets to manor home, Origanum is a good gravel backyard plant. And so yeah, there’s fairly quite a lot of Mediterranean herbs that may do fairly properly. It’s once more, it’s extra in regards to the hardiness, I believe.
Margaret: O.Ok. I keep in mind there’s a narrative within the e-book about one gardener in Pennsylvania, at Meadowbrook Farm in Pennsylvania. I believe his identify is Glenn Ashton, the pinnacle gardener there. And he needed to relocate some prickly pear cactus when a deer fence was going to be put in. However as a substitute of simply form of saying, “Oh, I acquired to get these out of right here and transfer them for the development and I’m going to place them over right here,” it was just like the impetus for making a gravel backyard, and so they grew to become a characteristic. In order that’s one other plant. So relying on the place one lives, however that’s one other plant, group of vegetation, proper?
Jeff: Oh, for certain. Yeah. And Glenn, he’s only a hoot. I imply, he’s the funniest man, most passionate gardener. And yeah, he piled up all kinds of gravel to create good drainage. And he’s really rising chollas, which I’ve solely seen grown down within the southwestern a part of america [laughter] and Glenn’s rising them in Pennsylvania.
Margaret: Yeah, he’s making these micro, I don’t know what you’d name it, these little habitats, these microcosmic habitats [laughter] due to these piles of gravel. Yeah, no, it’s nice.
Jeff: Yeah. And agaves, issues that I can’t develop right here for the lifetime of me, however it’s so enjoyable to see. And naturally they’re tremendous well-adapted, and so they don’t need to water them. In actual fact, he’s making the drainage 10 instances higher in order that he can hold them alive in order that they’re not too moist. Fairly neat.
Margaret: There’s one little tip, I believe it was in form of an FAQ, a steadily requested query part of the e-book, and it was speaking about if you happen to needed some annuals for form of additional oomph in the course of the rising season, you could possibly make these little pockets by embedding within the gravel, embedding items like 6- or 8-inch items of pipe, of clay or metallic pipe, down into the gravel, and fill these with soil. So in different phrases, you’re not creating a giant soil space, you’re simply planting into these little pipes [laughter]. And I simply form of liked the concept; it’s virtually like plugs.
Jeff: And that loopy gardener can be me as a result of I needed so as to add extra shade to my gravel backyard. However what planting annuals and that gravel yearly was only a sort of a ache. I had some previous clay pipe that I simply use for loopy pots anyway. And so yeah, they have been about 8 inches deep and so I simply form of embedded them within the soil a bit bit. The gravel comes as much as the highest edge, however but soil is accessible to them within the prime finish. So I can plant actually drought tolerant issues that them like cleome, cosmos do nice.
Margaret: I might possibly do zinnias or one thing.
Jeff: Yeah. In actual fact, I’m rising zinnias this yr; I at all times do them beneath lights, this, that, and the opposite. After which poppies seed in there. And now I’ve discovered as a result of my gravel backyard is correct on the road and all of the deicing snow has sand blended in with it, that 2 ft alongside the curb is getting infiltrated with some sand. And so it’s sort of enjoyable. I’ve been throwing California poppy seeds in there, some Verbena bonariensis, Corydalis lutea, which is a pleasant self-seeding one.
Margaret: Oh, that’s enjoyable.
Jeff: They usually’re all simply sort of seeding in there. Now each every now and then I get a dandelion in there too, however in the remainder of the backyard, no, I don’t get any of the self-seeding. So I simply sort of rolled with it slightly than attempt to struggle that sand, which might be unattainable. So it’s sort of a enjoyable alternative then to develop drought-tolerant annuals, which I sometimes wouldn’t have the ability to.
And a backyard like Chanticleer and Lisa’s methodology is definitely mixing sand and a few soil in together with her gravel. She needs it to self-seed and be an artist and simply sort of choose and select what she needs. However I just like the much less upkeep [laughter].
Margaret: Proper, as a result of as any of us know who’ve gravel in an space of our property, a shallow gravel with soil simply beneath it, it’s the favourite place for every part to self sow.
Jeff: Precisely.
Margaret: Properly, the brand new e-book is “The Gravel Backyard: Visionary Drought-Defying Naturalistic Designs.” And Jeff, it’s actually nice that you simply did this, as a result of we wanted to see the variety of potentialities I believe in a single place. I believe it’s actually time, as a result of it’s a topic that’s been developing, and but I’d see a bit of it right here and a bit of it there. So that is nice. I thanks. And it’s good to speak to you once more. I hope I’ll speak to you quickly once more.
(Images by B0b Stefko besides as famous.)
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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its seventeenth yr in March 2026. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Hear domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Might 18, 2026 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You may subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
