IDON’T RECALL who tipped me off to the Amphibian and Reptile Conservancy’s e mail publication, however I’m glad that I discovered it and signed up. These of you who’re longtime listeners or readers of A Method to Backyard know that I’ve, shall we embrace, a “factor” for frogs … so perhaps it’s no shock that I used to be delighted to find a corporation that’s implementing a community of on-the-ground conservation initiatives across the U.S. in behalf of imperiled amphibians, in addition to for reptiles.
The non-profit Amphibian and Reptile Conservancy’s mission is to establish and preserve the highest-priority locations for amphibians and reptiles, in help of those essential animals.
I contacted its govt director, conservation biologist JJ Apodaca, to ask him if a few of that deep conservation experience his group applies of their work could possibly be form of distilled for us gardeners, in order that we will create landscapes which can be extra hospitable to those important members of the meals internet, whose wants we too-often overlook. I bought some useful recommendations—and likewise discovered some astonishing details about amphibians, particularly salamanders.
Learn alongside as you hearken to the Aug. 3, 2026 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant under. You may subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
(Illustration, above, is the Conservancy’s United States of Herpetofauna map; extra on that right here and on Instagram, and the map can be accessible on merchandise that helps their work. Photograph of JJ Apodaca, under, by Mike Knoerr.)
amphibian methods of life, with jj apodaca
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Margaret Roach: Welcome, JJ. You’re in Asheville, aren’t you, in North Carolina?
JJ Apodaca: I’m. Within the stunning mountains right here within the Blue Ridge.
Margaret: Yeah. So simply in the best way of introduction to the animals and the group, your web site explains that amphibians and reptiles are among the many most threatened vertebrate teams on the earth. So inform us slightly bit about their function within the greater image, and perhaps about how the Amphibian and Reptile Conservancy approaches serving to them.
JJ: Certain. Effectively, I imply, all of us are accustomed to some amphibians and reptiles. Most of us are available contact with frogs or turtles in some unspecified time in the future all year long, and that’s such a present and a reminder of what superb species they’re.
Margaret: They’re certainly [laughter]. They’re certainly. And by way of, like I stated, within the introduction, of the meals internet and so forth, I imply, they’re prey they usually’re predators; they do varied jobs relying on the species. I imply, they’re essential, and but we don’t take into consideration them sufficient, I feel.
JJ: That’s proper. Yeah. I typically describe them because the bridge between invertebrates and invertebrate species in that they eat a number of invertebrate species they usually join these as much as birds and mammals and different issues that we’re extra accustomed to and see extra ceaselessly. However yeah, lots of people don’t understand how integral they’re to our meals webs and to our ecosystems and the world round us.
And the most effective methods I can use to explain that’s right here the place I stay within the Southern Appalachians and possibly even up the place you might be, Margaret, salamanders are probably the most considerable vertebrate we’ve within the forest. A lot in order that the biomass, so in case you took an acre of habitat and also you weighed all of the salamanders in that acre, it could outweigh the entire different vertebrates mixed. So that features issues like bear and deer and issues like that.
Margaret: Wow.
JJ: And so when you consider the affect that quantity of mass has on our ecosystem and what they’re doing by way of consuming invertebrates and loosening soil and being meals and prey gadgets and that form of factor, it’s actually super.
After which after all your favourite frogs are the identical, very considerable, they usually’re transferring out and in of wetlands they usually’re transferring vitamins throughout the panorama and taking the vitamins which can be accessible in wetlands and ponds after they’re tadpoles and transporting these out onto the panorama, and actually performing as form of transport for lots of vitamins again into our forests and again into our backyards and gardens and people kinds of locations.
Margaret: To not point out charismatic past perception [laughter].
JJ: After all. Yeah.
Margaret: So despite the fact that I’m a kind of frog folks—I’m positively outed now [laughter]—I noticed that in our preliminary cellphone name the opposite day that we by no means even actually bought deep into the subject of frogs, since you had me fully enchanted with some salamander tales—and that’s T-A-L-E-S, not T-A-I-L-S—and also you simply hinted at that and we’ll speak extra about some salamanders in a minute.
However earlier than we discuss particular ones, I had a taxonomy-ish query. The Conservancy is about each reptiles and amphibians, and I feel up to now, each teams had been extra carefully linked within the form of tree of life sense by scientists than they’re as we speak. However I don’t know, despite the fact that a salamander appears to me extra like a skink or a lizard maybe than it does like a frog, appearances may be deceiving, sure? I imply, what’s a reptile versus an amphibian? Are you aware what I imply?
JJ: Very a lot so.
Margaret: It’s not simply on appears, proper?
JJ: For positive. So we group these amphibians and reptiles now based mostly on evolutionary historical past, they usually’re truly very divergent from one another, and extra carefully associated to different issues. So for instance, alligators and crocodilians are extra carefully associated to birds than they’re to another reptiles. However they form of bought lumped collectively a very long time in the past simply based mostly on their options, so cold-blooded and that form of factor. And that has simply caught with the sector of herpetology and amphibians and reptiles. And we as Amphibian and Reptile Conservancy stick these collectively as a result of they’re typically missed and underrepresented within the conservation panorama. And so yeah, very, very totally different organisms.
And even salamanders or frogs: We estimate that salamanders and frogs diverged 300 million years in the past or so.
Margaret: Wow.
JJ: So that you’re speaking about some actually historical lineages that we group collectively below very free umbrellas of phrases like amphibians.
Margaret: Proper. Effectively, so it’s not simply me that discovered it slightly complicated [laughter].
JJ: For positive. And apart from their pores and skin, they don’t actually look alike. A frog is a very totally different physique plan than a salamander.
Margaret: Sure. I suppose they’re each tetrapods, however so is a zebra. So the place’s that going to get me? [Laughter.]
JJ: Precisely. Yeah.
Margaret: Yeah. So salamander tales: I imply, the one which’s acquainted to folks within the Japanese U.S., is it the Japanese newt or the Japanese salamander? What can we name the one which has a crimson eft stage?
JJ: The Japanese newt.
Margaret: Japanese newt. So I imply that alone, which is a well-known one—folks have most likely seen, met it or seen photos of it: a vibrant reddish-orangey form of coloration [below, at Margaret’s]. An unbelievable life story. So perhaps we may begin there.
JJ: Certain. Yeah. They’re actually an excellent instance of simply how little we regularly perceive about amphibians and reptiles and the pure world. We are likely to simplify these items and consider them as a small animal, a small vertebrate, that perhaps lives two years and has actually a easy life.
However Japanese newts can stay 15, 20 years. They undergo advanced life cycles. In order that they’re born within the water in an aquatic part, they usually have a larva stage, which is sort of a salamander model of a tadpole, the place they may spend a number of months in some climates upwards of a 12 months within the water growing. They nonetheless have gills in that part, just like the well-known axolotls. After which they metamorphose and are available out of these ponds into that eft stage. One of the simplest ways to explain it’s principally it’s an prolonged juvenile part, the place they form of wander the panorama vibrant crimson and delightful, and that’s the place we encounter most of them.
And like a number of juvenile phases, us as youngsters, they suppose they’re form of invincible, and they also wander out within the open. And for probably the most half, issues don’t mess with them as a result of they’re fairly poisonous to eat.
And they also get slightly bravado about them and wander the panorama. However then as soon as they attain sexual maturity 5 to seven years later, relying once more on climates, then they’ll return to an aquatic habitat and rework once more into an grownup newt. And that’s extra of a inexperienced part bigger with, once more, extra of a paddled tail becoming for an aquatic atmosphere [below; ARC photo by Emily Nolan]. And so they can truly commute. If a pond dries, they’ll rework extra right into a terrestrial part once more. And so it’s an unbelievable instance of simply how advanced a few of these life cycles are and the way superb the instruments that evolution has given them to outlive.
Margaret: And they also reproduce within the water, I imply, that’s the place they’re for his or her reproductive stage, you stated, at sexual maturity and so forth. And I imply, I see in my yard two water gardens that I dug 1,000,000 years in the past, I see them at that early or later stage. And it’s simply extremely fascinating as a result of they don’t appear to be the crimson eft. They don’t appear to be that very same creature. And but I do know that they’re. I imply, it’s miraculous. And the truth that they’ve two aquatic phases, it’s like, wow, actually? I don’t suppose there’s one other animal that does that.
JJ: It’s superb, too, in that it’s nearly like they fully flip their coloration scheme. So after they’re GF stage, they’re vibrant crimson they usually have little inexperienced dots after which they flip to adults they usually flip inexperienced after which they’ve little form of remnant crimson dots on them. So I feel a number of us, I suppose, undergo that the place they fully change who they had been as juveniles.
Margaret: Yeah, no, however they’re unbelievable. And the lifespan, the truth that they might stay so lengthy, I imply, it’s simply unbelievable. After which there’s the noticed salamander. Once more, I feel it’s an Japanese species, jap portion of the nation, however bigger, very distinctive. It’s noticed because it sounds. [Photo below from ARC by Jess Meck.]
JJ: Yeah. One other stunning, placing salamander that’s darkish black base with yellow spots throughout it. And a number of of us within the East, at the very least particularly up within the North, get extra accustomed to these guys as a result of they’ve such massive migrations in the course of the late winter, early spring, they usually’ll cross roads and also you see cities with noticed salamander festivals and that form of factor.
However once more, one other superb life historical past in that they spend the overwhelming majority of the 12 months fully underground. In reality, they belong to a household known as the mole salamanders as a result of they spend a lot time underground.
And actually their superpower, the superb factor about them, is that they’ve this unbelievable symbiotic relationship with an algae. And so in case you exit in a wetland or pond and also you see inexperienced eggs, these are almost definitely noticed salamander eggs. And people algae, they develop on these eggs and are discovered nowhere else however in noticed salamander eggs. And so they truly ship tendrils down into the physique of the salamander as they’re growing. And in case you take away the algae, the salamander will nonetheless survive, however they’ll be a lot, a lot smaller and that lasts by their whole life. And in case you take away the salamander, the algae truly dies, as a result of it’s not getting the vitamins it wants. So it’s one other unbelievable life historical past factor for a reasonably frequent species that many people have seen or at the very least heard of.
Margaret: And so they transfer. I imply, I do know many locations, I imply these form of massive nights, is that what they name it within the spring when the circumstances are moist and the proper temperature and so forth? And do they transfer at the moment like different salamanders do? Effectively, different amphibians do from, or have they got form of a migratory sample? You stated they arrive from underground and so forth. How distant from the water is that underground?
JJ: It’s usually not very far. It could possibly migrate a pair kilometers at most, however most salamanders typically don’t transfer very far, which is among the issues they face is that we’ve fragmented the panorama a lot that it makes it troublesome for them to maneuver throughout the panorama, as a result of they don’t have the flexibility like a fowl or a bigger mammal to maneuver throughout that panorama. And we see them so typically in these instances as a result of, in reality, we’ve fragmented the panorama. And they also’re making their dwelling they usually’re surviving as adults up within the uplands they usually’re attempting to get again to the wetlands. And so oftentimes we’ve put a highway there and that’s the place we see them is that they’re transferring from these uplands again to the wetlands.
Margaret: Proper, proper. You talked about, once more, that underground portion of the noticed salamander’s life. And I feel a number of us suppose amphibian and we predict water, which is certainly a part of its life. However even with frogs, aren’t a few of them extra terrestrial than—and perhaps that’s the unsuitable phrase, but-
JJ: Very a lot so.
Margaret: They’re not all 100% aquatic on a regular basis, are they?
JJ: No, by no means. In reality, one of the crucial frequent species within the Japanese U.S., and particularly the Northeast, is the wooden frog.
Margaret: Sure! Quacks like a duck up right here. [Laughter.]
JJ: Right. Aptly named as a result of they go into the woods they usually spend their time within the upland. And actually, the vast majority of salamander species on earth have truly developed a direct growing egg. And they also don’t lay their eggs in water, they lay their eggs on land. And the aquatic part for these guys truly occurs contained in the egg. In order that they develop their gills and every little thing similar to an aquatic salamander, however they do it within the egg they usually metamorphose earlier than they arrive out of the egg. And there are a number of species of frogs worldwide that try this. We don’t have as many right here in North America, however worldwide, that’s one thing that occurs as effectively.
Margaret: Proper. I keep in mind in, perhaps it was round Might or so within the spring in one in every of your newsletters, a difficulty of your publication, there was a venture that you simply had been describing within the Florida Panhandle, I imagine, a salamander venture. And also you had a little bit of a hiccup, due to drought circumstances, in bringing these infants—I’m going to make use of a non-technical phrase—in bringing these “infants” to the place you needed to assist to repopulate them or no matter due to drought, and also you needed to take some extraordinary measures. I assumed that was a form of attention-grabbing anecdote, and perhaps you might simply inform us the brief model of that.
JJ: Certain. Yeah. Thanks for studying that and bringing that up. That’s a salamander species that’s close to and expensive to my coronary heart and one of the crucial endangered salamander species in the US and if not the world. It’s known as the frosted flatwoods salamander [above, the frosted flatwoods salamander, and below, its aquatic stage; ARC photos by Rob Tiffin]. And it’s truly fairly carefully associated to the noticed salamander that we had been simply speaking about. They do have that aquatic life stage they usually do stay within the uplands.
Of their case, they stay in sandy uplands and longleaf pine ridges, historic longleaf pine ridges, they usually’ve been decreased to a tiny fraction of their unique vary. They’ve misplaced 99 p.c of their vary and 99 p.c of their habitat. And so we do a number of work to attempt to rebuild these populations, restore their habitat. And that was a case the place we’re working loads to headstart a number of these eggs, which simply means we’re attempting to get them previous their most susceptible stage within the egg and within the small larvae.
And we take the eggs out. Our group actually crawls palms and knees by these wetlands and dry areas to attempt to discover these eggs after which elevate them in tanks. And we launch them proper as they’re about to metamorphose in order that they form of imprint on that wetland and can return there. However this 12 months there was an issue: This was the driest 12 months ever recorded within the panhandle of Florida.
And so I’m actually pleased with our group. They bought artistic. They didn’t let that stand in the best way. We had over a thousand larvae to launch, however no wetlands to launch them in. And so the group simply rolled up their sleeves and went to work and constructed some little wetlands in little tubs and issues like that where-
Margaret: It was nearly like kiddie swimming pools submerged into the –
JJ: That’s proper.
Margaret: It was like improv wetlands. It was superb. [Above, release pens set up for the salamanders; ARC photo by Nicole Dahrouge.]
JJ: Thanks. Yeah, once more, actually pleased with the group for that one. And it simply reveals the perspective we’ve, which is simply we’ve to roll up our sleeves and do what must be carried out to save lots of a few of these species which can be simply so in hassle that they’re susceptible to going extinct in our lifetimes.
Margaret: So you’ve gotten all this experience, and you’ll take these sorts of measures and work out who’s probably the most endangered and the place they’re and the way to assist and so forth. And I ponder if we attempt to translate a few of that, distill slightly little bit of that experience in the previous couple of minutes right here.
What about amphibians can we people, particularly gardeners who’ve a panorama that we’re managing presumably, be extra acutely aware about? I imply, what are the issues that… I imply, I do know I really feel blessed that not as a result of I assumed I used to be going to draw amphibians, however simply because I needed water in my panorama, I made these water gardens years in the past, they usually’ve confirmed to be the nice attractant of each animal, from bugs on up. So what are the issues that we will do, be extra acutely aware of, as I stated?
JJ: Completely. Effectively, you’ve talked about it loads in your present with people like Doug Tallamy. And the concept is similar, which is simply that every one of those, even our frequent amphibians and reptiles, have misplaced a lot habitat that any habitat you’ll be able to create for them is useful, the carry the character residence thought. And for amphibians and reptiles, a number of that comes all the way down to fairly easy issues like leaving leaves on the bottom, maintaining pure shelter in place. On this case, pure shelter is bigger rocks and logs. They love rotting logs. So we see a go surfing the bottom as something-
Margaret: Particles.
JJ: Proper. Yeah. Actually that’s the house for not simply amphibians and reptiles, however a number of invertebrates and every little thing, small mammals. And so simply maintaining that naturalness to your backyard space and your panorama. After which completely what you had been saying is simply creating any form of wetland habitat, particularly fish-less wetland habitats that enable larval amphibians to outlive and thrive.
We as a rustic from 1780 to 1980 destroyed 60 acres of wetlands an hour each hour for 200 years. And so you’ll be able to think about for something that is dependent upon a wetland, they’re out on the panorama simply searching for wherever to have the ability to make a dwelling, to put their eggs and survive principally. And so any enable you to can provide to these creatures is a assistance on the panorama.
Margaret: And no chemical substances, I feel, as a result of I might think about these are extraordinarily susceptible creatures.
JJ: Completely. Particularly amphibians, which in lots of instances breathe totally by their pores and skin, and in a number of instances breathe loads by their pores and skin. So a number of salamanders, for instance, have fully misplaced their lungs. And so the actual benefit for them is that they’ll breathe proper throughout their pores and skin. The drawback is that we’ve after all put a number of issues on the market that they don’t need to be taking throughout their pores and skin. And so completely limiting chemical substances. After all, everyone has an event or many people have an event the place it is advisable use these issues sparingly, however form of limiting their publicity.
Margaret: To be acutely aware. Yeah. Effectively, I’m simply so glad… Like I stated, I don’t keep in mind how I discovered you, however I’m so glad, and I hope this would be the first of many conversations. Subsequent we’ve to speak about frogs [laughter].
JJ: After all. Yeah, I’d love that.
Margaret: And I’ll attempt to not anthropomorphize an excessive amount of in that dialog [laughter], however thanks, JJ Apodaca, from the Amphibian and Reptile Conservancy. And I’ll give all of the details about how folks can discover your web site and the publication and so forth [below]. And I hope I’ll speak to you once more quickly. Thanks for making time as we speak.
JJ: Nice. Thanks once more, Margaret. Nice to speak to you.
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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its seventeenth 12 months in March 2026. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Aug. 3, 2026 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You may subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
