BOTH GARDENERS and their crops need to be extra resilient than ever nowadays in our altering local weather it appears. On the Excessive Line in New York Metropolis, one of many best-known naturalistic gardens wherever, that’s particularly so, because it’s constructed on the preposterous web site of a former rail line, 30 ft above road degree, that means a plant should be an distinctive performer to make the grade.
Richard Hayden, the Excessive Line’s Senior Director of Horticulture, talked to me in regards to the crops that excel in numerous extremes of moisture, for example, or in shade, or provide essentially the most ecologically, and about how the group is utilizing sure species to create weed-suppressing residing inexperienced mulch, and likewise shifting their serious about gardens as ecological communities reasonably than a set of crops.
Richard joined the Excessive Line 4 years in the past to steer the group that manages the mile-and-a-half-long stretch of gardens, with two new areas set to open this yr.
Additionally: On Saturday, Might 30, the Excessive Line is holding its first-ever plant sale with 39 totally different species the group has propagated from the backyard—a few of these high performers, that play key roles in making the Excessive Line work aesthetically and ecologically.
Learn alongside as you take heed to the April 20, 2026 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant under. You possibly can subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
(Photographs above of Amelanchier in bloom on the Excessive Line, and under of Richard Hayden, by Liz Ligon.)
star crops of the excessive line, with richard hayden
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Margaret Roach: Joyful spring, or is it summer season this week? I type of have whiplash [laughter].
Richard Hayden: Oh my gosh. We’ve received 4 days this week above 80 levels in New York Metropolis. So we went from winter, two days of spring, and now we’re into full-blown summer season. So we’re scrambling to getting every part prepared for the upcoming yr.
Margaret: Yeah. As I mentioned within the introduction, I do know you’ve advised me that you simply and the Excessive Line horticulture group are serious about gardens as ecological communities reasonably than a set of crops. So can we speak about that just a bit to get began? As a result of I feel that’s an attention-grabbing mindset. And the way does that mindset shift have an effect on you guys and the place?
Richard: Effectively, the attention-grabbing factor is that after they have been first designing the Excessive Line and the gardens, Piet Oudolf, our backyard designer, labored with the design group, they usually got here up with this framework of utilizing ecological habitats as a design framework. So we’ve woodlands, we’ve grasslands, we’ve woodland edge, and we’ve a wetland.
And so by utilizing these as a framework, clearly you possibly can create this episodic journey that provides you a unique emotional expertise as you come out of the woodland, into the grassland, and seeing the wetland with the Hudson within the background. It’s only a option to inform the story, nevertheless it’s additionally a extremely great way of constructing a backyard that can assist one another; all of the crops have cultural wants. And so it simply makes, I feel, for a way more evocative expertise.
Margaret: And so while you’re an space or you may have a brand new space that you simply’re going to plant—I do know you may have a few new parts of the place of the park opening this yr—I imply, is that a part of the considering? Do you all speak about that? Are you aware what I imply? Do you discuss in regards to the plant communities; do you do homework [laughter] on the plant communities?
Richard: Effectively, we do. And naturally, we’re not 100% native. Piet likes to say that gardens are for folks, and so he desires to make use of the very best mixture of crops that he can put collectively that match inside that ecological habitat. So we’ve a few new gardens coming, because you talked about that. At seventeenth Avenue, we had a giant building undertaking occurring for 9 years, and people gardens type of went fallow, as a result of we are able to’t backyard in these beds as a result of there’s buildings occurring subsequent door that would principally drop a window or one thing on you.
So after 9 years, we lastly had an opportunity to renovate that specific part. And I requested Piet to do a model new design for us. And in order that’s type of primarily based on a grassland. He’s utilizing a brand new grass for us, which is Sporobolus airoides, alkali sacaton—it’s really a West Coast species—as a type of matrix. In order that’ll be a brand new type of grassland. And we’re getting 15 model new model new crops for the Excessive Line in that design.
After which up at thirty fourth Avenue, the place it’s the very north finish of the park, we’re getting a brand new walkway within the western railyard part, which if folks know is the unique type of self-seeded panorama; it’s not one of many design landscapes.
However on the very north finish the place folks are available in, we type of felt prefer it wanted to be extra particular, as a result of folks come to the Excessive Line—they give the impression of being on Google Maps or one thing they usually see entrance to the Excessive Line, they usually are available in up at thirty fourth Avenue. And admittedly, it’s just a bit bleak. So Piet has accomplished a model new backyard for us there. And since we wish to block out the road and the bus cease and the car parking zone, he’s designed that as type of a woodland-edge type of thicket. So numerous shrubs, numerous flowering spring shrubs, numerous viburnums, redbuds. Truly, I feel it’ll be an ideal fowl backyard as a result of there’s going to be-
Margaret: I used to be simply going to say, the birds miss the shrubs; the shrub layer is what we’ve actually gotten rid of in a lot of our world, and that’s so essential for them, not only for … It’s each for locations to cover, locations to nest, stuff to eat, pollinators then use it and the birds go after the bugs which are going after the flowers. So the shrubs are so essential.
Richard: And many fall berries.
Margaret: Precisely.
Richard: As a result of Piet is all in regards to the seasonal look. So we’ll have numerous great-looking fall berries—many natives, by the best way—which can present that nutritious seed for that migrating fowl to fatten up and have the ability to make it south.
Margaret: Effectively, while you have been speaking a minute in the past in regards to the West Coast grass species that you simply mentioned you have been utilizing it as a matrix, so let’s simply dip into that. As a result of that’s one other phrase that I feel folks hear recently: matrix plantings. And it’s form of like, what’s that? And clearly not within the superior panorama architect’s description from the textbook, however to you, what’s a matrix? What’s that?
Richard: Positive. So I feel the best way Piet Oudolf makes use of the time period, it’s designing in drifts and designing in layers. So usually—and it really works each in woodlands and in grasslands—we’ll have a few groundcover species that develop into what we name the matrix, they usually’re repeated they usually play effectively with others. They’re not super-competitive, however they simply create what we wish to name a inexperienced mulch. They cowl the bottom, they supply some curiosity, however they actually present type of a stage for these different perennials to return up by way of and carry out and do their factor, after which perhaps recede.
The matrix works rather well, for example, with spring bulbs, as a result of for example, proper now, let’s say we’ve received some little species tulips and a few little tender Narcissus out within the backyard. And because the matrix comes up, which in lots of instances might be issues like autumn moor glass, Sesleria autumnalis [above, photo from the High Line] or it could possibly be Calamintha; there’s a sterile species that we use. And as these come up, then the bulb foliage will get to wither down inside and also you’re not conscious of that withering bulbs.
So it’s only a mind-set about overlaying the bottom. Mom nature, we all know, abhors a vacuum. So anytime that there’s a possibility for weed seed to get in, it can. So we wish to cowl it with crops that we like.
Margaret: I feel it was in a e book perhaps with Noel Kingsbury, I feel Piet and Noel, I feel they made the analogy of that the matrix is the fruitcake and the showier crops are the items of fruit and nuts which are combined into the batter or one thing like that [laughter]. I don’t assume I made that up. I feel that was from a e book they did. Didn’t they collaborate on a e book?
Richard: They did. Yeah.
Margaret: So I feel it was from that e book, a fruitcake analogy. So there’s the batter, there’s the principle, the muse, however there’s additionally these yummy bits that exhibit right here and there.
And I bear in mind years in the past being advised by Claudia West of Phyto Design, she mentioned, “Margaret, crops are the mulch; crops are the mulch.” And in order that’s that inexperienced mulch concept. And moreover, as you have been simply explaining, that it hides some issues, it will probably conceal some issues which are going out of bloom and so forth and so forth, it additionally minimizes some upkeep if it’s effectively executed, doesn’t it? I imply, doesn’t it assist weed suppression and different issues?
Richard: Yeah, and it’ll really assist preserve moisture in some conditions, too. Sesleria, the autumn moor grass, is an efficient instance. It doesn’t actually seed round for us. It simply creates this lovely type of 8- to 12- to 15-inch-tall, inexperienced, feathery understory. Blooms within the fall, type of seems to be lovely; has a fantastic type of limey-green… As a result of Piet’s very a lot about leaf texture and leaf coloration, and flowers are only one small facet of the best way he designs. So while you’ve received these simply nice bulwark crops that all the time are going to look good, it simply offers a very nice alternative for every part else to emerge up out of it.
Margaret: So within the introduction, I used to be talking about how all of us, wherever we’re gardening, it’s getting a bit of crazier by the minute [laughter]. And crops are being put to the take a look at and issues which may’ve labored at a sure level for those who’ve been gardening a very long time in an area don’t carry out precisely the identical approach and so forth. However you’ve recognized some crops which are actually working effectively for you regardless of your extra-challenging web site; actually a really uncovered web site.
And a few of these are going to be featured in your plant sale on Might 30; I may give all of the hyperlinks how folks can discover out about that special occasion. And I do know you’re going to have some backyard talks, some plant talks and a Q&A sales space or no matter, like a desk with a few of your knowledgeable gardeners are going to assist reply folks’s questions and plenty of good things.
However I feel the classes you may have are like, there are habitat crops, those that basically are tremendous performers ecologically, and shade crops that put up with the low-light situations, and wetland and rain-garden crops, and drought and climate-resilient crops. And so that you type of have discovered which of them work in these niches, so to talk. [Photo above by Timothy Schenck.]
Richard: Proper. This concept of resilient crops actually got here out of this instructional exhibit that we’ve been doing referred to as Nature within the Metropolis, which can also be on the web site. The entire concept is that the Excessive Line is a lot greater than only a fairly stroll within the park. We’re a extremely supplier of ecological providers right here within the metropolis. And so we’re a habitat.
We simply did a fowl stroll, our first fowl stroll with the New York Metropolis Chook Alliance yesterday. We noticed palm warblers, simply numerous new issues coming in. So it’s an thrilling park, however we’re additionally climate-resilient. I wish to say that if you wish to know what try to be planting within the face of local weather chaos—and we all know we’re getting longer droughts, we’re getting stronger rainstorms—you look to the crops which are rising fortunately 30 ft within the air with lower than 18 inches of soil.
We get actually these unimaginable wind tunnels that get shaped by totally different buildings round us. We get mirrored scorch off of glass excessive rises. At sure occasions of the yr, you’ll simply see an entire backyard will simply type of brown out as a result of the reflection from the solar is simply hitting it good.
So for those who’re a plant on the Excessive Line, likelihood is actually ready to withstand numerous these totally different facets. And in order that’s the place we got here up with this concept of having the ability to really propagate crops from the Excessive Line. We’ve received over 2,000 crops which are going to be prepared on the market on the thirtieth, and that includes the crops that we actually felt put the very best confronted ahead for the long-lasting Excessive Line crops that Piet makes use of steadily, but in addition those which are actually in a position to face up to numerous these totally different situations.
Margaret: Effectively, within the habitat plant listing, the anusis, the columbine, Echinacea purpurea, the Monarda fistulosa, the assorted Pycnanthemum, which is a super-pollinator. I imply, it’s like that factor’s abuzz; that little plant’s abuzz.
Richard: We’ve received three totally different Pycnanthemum we’re providing really, three totally different mountain mints. So we’re actually excited to have the ability to characteristic these. They’re such nice crops. [P. incanum, above, by Maeve Turner.]
Margaret: And you’ve got the Vernonia talked about and clearly the Asclepias. So once more, it’s not solely met the take a look at, it’s met your take a look at as a result of it’s the additional layer of strain, I suppose. And yeah, you’re welcoming in a really tough setting, you’re welcoming this wildlife, all this exercise. And also you’re seeing, as you simply identified, warblers are visiting proper now, and there’s all types of attention-grabbing bugs and and so forth.
And also you’ve recognized issues that do within the shade for you as a result of you may have numerous bushes. I imply, despite the fact that you solely have what, 18 inches of soil depth, or some loopy factor that bushes are rising up there, and beneath them Tiarella and sedges and all types of nice issues.
Richard: Yeah. And we’ve our shade asters that do rather well for us. One among our favourite shade groundcovers is the Japanese forest grass, Hakonechloa, which has such an ideal texture and has such nice winter curiosity. The opposite factor, in fact, that it’s a must to be on the Excessive Line is it’s a must to have some form of seasonal curiosity. And the Japanese forest grass turns this lovely type of tawny caramel coloration, stays up in these large drifts, strikes. The opposite factor I feel that’s underrated in crops is the best way they transfer within the wind, and that provides us that type of fourth-dimensional expertise. And in order that’s a superb one.
Margaret: And that’s one the place, as you identified earlier, Piet, a few of his crops usually are not native and that’s one which’s not, nevertheless it’s additionally not aggressive, invasive, no matter. I’ve had that plant main as much as the door, type of alongside items of the trail, for many years. And it stays put. I imply, the clumps get a bit of larger, nevertheless it’s not like a loopy plant; it’s not a difficult plant. And it’s so lovely. And as you level out, it has that just about four-season curiosity.
Richard: And it takes some deep shade.
Margaret: It actually does. It actually does. And I imply, I’ve a gold cultivar, and so it simply screams [laughter]; even within the shade, it’s simply so vibrant and so blissful and delightful. So yeah, in order that’s one of many exceptions to the largely native… there’s numerous natives within the palette as effectively.
You’ve got one other plant that I really like that’s not a local. Now I’m going to have to recollect—Phlomis, proper? It’s like a mint relative, I suppose. Phlomis russeliana.
Richard: Sure.
Margaret: A loopy little herby type of factor.
Richard: Type of a Mediterranean plant. It’s humorous, I got here to horticulture from doing it in Los Angeles, and there have been only a few crops that I knew from my time in Los Angeles that really translated to the Excessive Line, however Phlomis russeliana is certainly one of them. It has this large leaf texture after which has these flower stalks that develop up about 18 to 24 inches above, with type of a pale yellow, which another time make a fantastic seed head and simply actually create actually good winter curiosity as effectively. The feel is so nice with that plant.
Margaret: Yeah. And once more, I found it first many, a few years in the past in an herb nursery or one thing. It was this oddball, and I used to be fascinated by it. And yeah, so there are exceptions to the native factor.
So different robust spots that there have been … Are there type of signature crops do you’re feeling like which are creating for the Excessive Line? Are you aware what I imply? It’s been now what, 17 years; is that what number of years it’s? What number of years?
Richard: Seventeen because the first part opened, sure.
Margaret: So do you’re feeling like there are crops which are synonymous with … As a result of that type of occurs the place you say, “Oh, I’m going to go to see the blah-blahs at such-and-such backyard.” Are you aware what I imply? [Laughter.]
Richard: Completely. So I feel most likely probably the most … I really feel probably the most iconic Excessive Line crops and Piet loves as effectively is threadleaf bluestar, Amsonia hubrichtii, which I feel it’s solely native to Arkansas and Oklahoma in floodplains. Anytime you hear floodplain, you assume that’s a tenacious plant as a result of it will probably maintain on. [Amsonia, above by Ayinde Listhrop.]
Margaret: It doesn’t drown. [Laughter.]
Richard: Yeah, deluges of water, after which that spot might dry out in a while. But it surely will get about, what, 4 or 5 ft tall, ferny, ferny foliage, vibrant inexperienced, blue flowers in Might or so, that are beautiful. However then, the actual shine occurs within the fall as a result of it simply turns this russet gold caramel. I don’t know what coloration you name it, actually.
Margaret: All the above, Richard.
Richard: Yeah, it’s true. It’s true. And with that texture, it’s simply such a showy fall addition, and it holds up fairly effectively for the winter, too. The leaves will fall, nevertheless it nonetheless holds a pleasant type of dome construction. So it’s an ideal one.
The rattlesnake grasp, one other, I feel an ideal Excessive Line iconic plant, Eryngium yuccifolium. It’s tall spikes, if you’ll. It’s actually uncommon wanting. And it’s a prairie plant, North American prairie plant. And I feel it received its identify as a result of the native folks would break off one of many stalks after which shake it as they walked by way of the prairie to maintain the rattlesnakes from the pathway. But it surely has this actually tall type of globe-shaped, small globe-shaped flowers, that are pollinator magnets. We see all kinds of enjoyable pollinators throughout them. After which another time simply has that lovely winter construction as a result of it holds up rather well. [Photo above of rattlesnake master by Ayinde Listhrop.]
Margaret: Is it type of silvery, sure?
Richard: Yeah. Somewhat silvery-gray foliage. Yuccifolium means wanting a bit of like a yucca type of sword-shape.
Margaret: Yeah. And I imply, for a plant of that stature, the silver-ish, grayish type of factor, it feels a bit of uncommon. So it’s actually a high-drama plant, I feel.
Richard: Yeah.
Margaret: I feel it’s lovely.
Richard: That’s a pleasant approach of placing it. I’m going to steal that high-drama plant.
Margaret: O.Okay. That’s a drama queen [laughter]. So these are a pair. Anything that form of involves thoughts for-
Richard: So I’ve to place in a pitch for Euphorbia corollata, flowering spurge. It’s certainly one of our native euphorbias. It’s the fine-textured model of the rattlesnake grasp, as a result of they mix rather well collectively. It’s type of upright, very, very tiny white flowers in umbels, type of spherical umbels. And it reseeds for us a bit, nevertheless it’s not too opportunistic, which provides you this good type of dynamic feeling when it immediately reveals up over there and also you assume, “Oh, it seems to be good with that plant.” But it surely’s additionally a pollinator powerhouse and it has construction, has a superb texture, nevertheless it additionally has construction on the similar time and simply actually seems to be good with grasses. [Euphorbia corollata, above, by Ayinde Listhrop.]
Margaret: So once we’re planting with ecology in thoughts and creating plant communities and so forth, we’re not doing onesies, proper? We’re not placing certainly one of this and certainly one of that. Is that one other factor that you simply … Since you’ve had such success attracting, once more, creatures—all these native creatures who wouldn’t essentially be there in any other case. Do you employ numerous, as you mentioned, drifts or plenty and repeating issues in order that they’ll type of discover it, that there’s sufficient mass to draw them as opposed to-
Richard: Completely. I feel one of many causes that we’re so biodiverse, and even Dr. Doug Tallamy has referred to as us an essential connector between wild locations, with our to this point 33 species of bees which are utilizing the Excessive Line for meals or shelter, it’s the massing. We now have 560 taxa, so totally different species and cultivars, and they’re massed.
He’s received some nice ways in which he talks about the best way it’s rhythm, it’s sequence, it’s texture, nevertheless it’s repetition is the large one. And so when it repeats, identical to in nature, you look to nature and also you say, “Oh, there’s 15 of that over there after which six right here,” and it type of seems to be prefer it perhaps received unfold by a wind sample or one thing, feels pure. But it surely’s providing you with sufficient biomass that, for example, for those who simply had one milkweed, I don’t assume the monarchs would discover it. However when you possibly can put 15 or 20 in a sure part of the backyard, then it turns into a vital mass. There’s sufficient, regardless of the milkweed is giving off, that the butterfly can discover, you then get that symbiosis.
And so it simply creates … After which the variety of the entire crops, particularly within the grasslands that we’ve, the variety of flowering crops, the continuous bloom of one thing going principally from now till October, November, simply makes it even that rather more a sexy habitat as a result of we’ll have one thing for everyone.
Margaret: Proper. And the opposite beauty of the massing or repeating, as you mentioned, is that it helps the design aesthetically cling collectively, too. So for folks’s enjoyment visually, are you aware what I imply? It’s like versus the onesies factor. So it’s good for everyone, all creatures nice and small as they are saying [laughter].
Richard: Completely.
Margaret: I’m all the time glad to speak to you. When are the 2 new sections opening? When’s the primary a type of two openings?
Richard: So the seventeenth Avenue backyard is open now and we’re ready on crops to complete it up, contract-growing some crops, they usually’ll be prepared in June. In order that’ll be completed in June. The thirty fourth Avenue backyard, it seems to be prefer it’ll be opening in September or October.
Margaret: Nice. Effectively, extra to stay up for, however thanks, Richard, for making time right now, and hope I’ll see you quickly and discuss to you once more quickly, too.
Richard: Completely. All the time nice to speak crops with you, Margaret.
MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its seventeenth yr in March 2026. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Hear domestically within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Japanese, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the April 20, 2026 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You possibly can subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
